Discovery ending with Season 5

[Lord Garth]

I sometimes wonder how Star Trek would have evolved if Roddenberry he had lived another fifteen years and been healthy that entire time. I bet things would have been a lot different.

Given his age, being that he was 65 when he created TNG, I don't see him working on any Star Trek series after that. I think most of TNG and VOY (except for a few episodes) and most seasons of ENT stay the same. DS9, the third season of ENT, and the TNG Movies, on the other hand, would be very different. Not because he'd be working on them, but because Rick Berman would feel the weight of Gene Roddenberry watching over him. In this reality, Ira Steven Behr could very well have been fired.

Generations would be completely unrecognizable. Kirk would not appear, the Enterprise-D wouldn't be destroyed, and Picard's family wouldn't be killed off. It would be a different film. First Contact wouldn't deconstruct Evolved Humanity, at least not so thoroughly. Insurrection and Nemesis wouldn't be so action-packed.

EDITED TO ADD: Data wouldn't have been killed off in Nemesis which, in turn, sends the first season of Picard on a completely different trajectory. In fact, Picard might not exist as a series because the things that left such a sour taste in the audience's mouth back in 2002 wouldn't have been allowed to happen. I'm of the firm belief that the only reason PIC exists at all is because the TNG Movies didn't end in a way that satisfied the audience. Though I still think NEM would've flopped no matter what, with a better story or not, because the Cinematic Landscape changed too much during the Turn of the Milennium. (I wish it would change that drastically again today, but that's a whole other story... )

 

[eschaton]

Look, broadly speaking I like DSC. But various people in the production office must have known it wouldn't go down well in some quarters. It's sad because I think if you just tweak 23rd Century to 26th then the initial premise of the show works. You'd have to lose the Spock stuff I guess, but other than that the first Season would still work.

The Klingon redesign is 100% on Bryan Fuller, from what I understand (as are most of the over-produced aspects of design from the first season), but I have a sneaking suspicion that the whole Spock's sister thing was retconned into Michael's backstory after he left.

Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% certain that Fuller intended her to be bicultural - a human raised by Vulcans. But her backstory didn't make any sense with Amanda there as a fellow human. Not to mention if you watch the first two episodes the Sarek scenes really do seem lazily pasted in during reshoots - they are completely unneeded for the core narrative.

Season 2 spent its run back-pedalling, and I while I like them in SNW, I felt suddenly that Mount and Peck were dominating someone else's show. Season 3 is like a soft reboot that they run with in Season 4...

TBH, Season 4 had some of the same issues with the main cast getting sidelined. It became a story of Book, Ruon Tarka, President Riliak, T'Rina, etc. Aside from Michael, the old core cast of the show had no real story purpose any longer. Saru's character arc across the season was trying to get a date, and the payoff was...holding hands. Tilly left the series mid-season. Stamets vanished into the background.

If I were Anthony Rapp, I'd be pretty disgruntled...he's clearly been given shorter shrift than anyone on the cast. Stamets has basically no personality traits other than being grumpy, gay, and liking spores. I guess he kinda thinks of Adira as his child now, but they didn't do anything worthwhile with it. I suppose he's not any worse developed than say Beverly on TNG, or Ensign Kim on Voyager, but at least they got fucking episodes to lead on occasion.

 

[FederationHistorian]

DIS was cancelled because it was expensive to maintain in a cost cutting era. That’s it. It has nothing to do with creativity, considering how unexplored the 32nd century is as a concept. Considering DIS’s budget, that could fund several new Trek shows at once. And its known that there are several shows being planned (Starfleet Academy, Section 31 show, Seven show, Janeway show). Even if it hadn’t been cancelled this season, it would have been cancelled next season, as the episode order was constantly being reduced. And TPTB seem to want streaming Trek to be synonymous with 10 episode seasons, unlike says Netflix, which is content with 6 or 8 episode seasons for its original shows.

DIS left the world of Spock, Pike, Una, & Kirk to be in the world of Vance, Rillak, Adira & Book. And S3-5 with be the equivalent of a full season (26 episode) and a half. DS9 is long considered the gayest trek, but DIS had actually LGTBQ+ representation and was a response to a significant shortcoming of Berman Trek.

Considering that it had a few extra episodes than the rest of streaming Trek, those extra episodes are the equivalent to a season and a half, meaning in a sense DIS went for 7 seasons. Despite being ordered for 5.

The show did have its own unique characters. And appearance wise, holds up to past Trek.

Nhan’s been in as many episodes of DIS as Leeta was in DS9. There are a couple of characters – Vance and Adira – that if they are in just in a couple of episodes in S5, they’ll have been in more episodes of DIS than Pulaski was in TNG (Book already has). And if Book and Adira are in every episode of S5, they’ll have edged out Tasha Yar in appearances by at least 1 episode (flashbacks included), and won’t be far behind the appearances of Garak and Rom in DS9. Even the antagonist appearances are no different - Tarka=Silik with 7 appearances each, Leland with 8 appearances while Cullah had 6 appearances, Osyraa=Borg Queen or Lore (both pre-PIC) with 4 appearances each, & T’Kuvma had 2 appearances while Khan had an episode and a movie and the Gorn in “Arena” had 1 episode) So these characters are iconic in their own right.

The real defining issue will be storytelling. The show always felt like a hot mess, and never realized its potential. And it was never really addressed despite the show constantly adjusting to audience critiques as the way DIS tells stories is a feature, not a bug.

While the potential that won’t be seen is a small concern (ex. a proper PIC crossover with Soji alive and well in the 32nd century). Its what they produced and how they will be remembered in the future.

You want to see Discovery rebuild the Federation by exploring a la TOS/TNG/VOY? Sorry, we’re skipping that and will give you this galactic threat instead.

Think the Emerald Chain would want to hold Burnham accountable for the death of their leader, like the Klingons did with Kirk in TUC (even though Kirk was innocent)? Sorry, no one cared about that leader, and Orion women don’t seem do it for people anymore in the 32nd century, apparently.

Wondering what the legacy of various TNG characters are in the 32nd century, or even Section 31 after the previous season? Sorry, apparently no one is interested in sharing with the crew despite the crew themselves admitting they want to hear stories.

The Burn is a compelling story. Wondering how it happened? Apparently, a crying child caused it.

Want some character driven episodes on not just the middle decks crew, but even other characters in the main cast? Sorry, here are a bunch of other recurring characters you need to care about instead.

Think there will be tension between Burnham and Nhan over Book for future seasons that will cause compelling conflict and drama? Actually, its all good, controversy avoided, Nhan decided not to shoot down Book's ship after all and Burnham & Nhan's friendship is okay.

There is a season for Burnham to address Sarek’s parenting, and the Discovery crew to encounter the Klingons once more. But how much attention would those stories get, considering its an adventure story that supposed to get away from the threat-of-the-season format?

Perhaps the season long format and limited number of episodes are partially to blame for grievances with the show. But the show really seems like TNG S1-2 stuck in a continuous loop. It never found its TNG S3-S5 and kicked it into gear. And that I feel I know more about the Titan-A doctor and her skills in only four episodes of the third season of PIC than at least half of the Discovery middle decks crew in four seasons of DIS lend credence that number of episodes and shorter seasons aren't the problem.

I'm not broken up over its loss. This show really does feel more a product of its time than a timeless show. Hopefully whoever takes over the 32nd century concept in the future runs with it more boldly than DIS did.

 

[ananta]

Well, except for the time he had a hand in saving the entire matter universe in "The Alternative Factor", but we don't speak of such things...

Agreed, they also saved the galaxy from being consumed by the giant space amoeba (“Immunity Factor”), restored a timeline in which Starfleet had been wiped out (“City on the Edge”) and stopped a planet killer which would otherwise have decimated the galaxy (“Doomsday Machine”). That’s just off the top of my head. The stakes were sometimes big going on massive.

 

[Dukhat]

And its known that there are several shows being planned (Starfleet Academy, Section 31 show, Seven show, Janeway show).

There is no evidence that a Seven or Janeway show is being planned. And Section 31 and Starfleet Academy are dead in the water.

 

[mattman8907]

There is no evidence that a Seven or Janeway show is being planned. And Section 31 and Starfleet Academy are dead in the water.

Says who? You?

 

[Dukhat]

Says who? You?

That is what I said, yes.

 

[Quantum21]

That is what I said, yes.

I believe you are at least partially wrong on those claims. I will touch base with you again in April.

 

[Dukhat]

I belive you are at least partially wrong on those claims. I will touch base with you again in April.

Well, you're welcome to show me the evidence that I'm wrong now. We don't have to wait until April.

 

[Quantum21]

Well, you're welcome to show me the evidence that I'm wrong now. We don't have to wait until April.

Pending further evidence April.

 

[Dukhat]

Pending further evidence April.

Uh huh.

 

[Lord Garth]

There were several series in development. Past tense. They're cutting back now. They moved DSC Season 5 to 2024 to buy themselves more time to figure out how they'll proceed in this new situation. We don't know what they're going to do because they don't know. They're still sorting it out.

If everything was going according to plan, they wouldn't have to shoot additional footage for DSC Season 5 because they didn't intend for it to be the last season. They'd have been prepping for DSC Season 6 (unofficially, at least) and Terry Matalas would be acting coy about a PIC continuation or replacement instead of the very blunt "I don't know."

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I wonder if the reshoots will tie it into Calypso

 

[Tuskin38]

Well, you're welcome to show me the evidence that I'm wrong now. We don't have to wait until April.

April is first contact day. They sometimes announce things then, I think that’s what he’s referring to.

 

[Dukhat]

I wonder if the reshoots will tie it into Calypso

I think the reshoots were more about them just wanting to end the show rather than making it look like they were going to continue with a sixth season. Doubtful it has anything to do with Calypso. That ship has sailed.

April is first contact day. They sometimes announce things then, I think that’s what he’s referring to.

It sounded like he was acting like he had inside information. That was my take on it, anyway, since he was being coy.

 

[fireproof78]

There is no evidence that a Seven or Janeway show is being planned. And Section 31 and Starfleet Academy are dead in the water.

Indeed. The announcement about Discovery's last season has not provided any follow up on future plans. I think there will be no future shows for now.

 

[eschaton]

It's basically been confirmed that the Picard Season 3 sets (including the Titan) have been trashed.

Could be a sign no show is on the horizon, but it could also just be that if they do film it's solely gonna be in Canada now, because it would have been more expensive to move the sets than just do a total rebuild.

 

[Char Kais]

Looks like both. Paramount+ isn't getting enough users so they are cleaning house on under performing series.

So, they cited sources then? As in "Paramount published this and stated why" type sources?.

How about "Paramount Investor Relations Earnings Materials":
https://ir.paramount.com/earnings-materials#menu

This is from the earnings report that Paramount Global is publishing quarterly.

In this report is a list of what content on Paramount+ drove subscription/acquisition and/or engagement/consumption (mostly it's a combined list, sometimes Paramount list the two metrics separately):

2021 Q4
https://ir.paramount.com/static-files/12dcb1b9-4a0d-44f6-88fe-56933a2b4a06
Domestically, Paramount+ saw record subscriber sign-ups and engagement from a variety of content, including Clifford The Big Red Dog, Mayor of Kingstown, 1883, South Park: Post Covid, live events and the NFL

2022 Q1
https://ir.paramount.com/static-files/4eca8381-53d2-4975-8a42-22620ca94218
Domestically, Paramount+ saw strong engagement and consumption from a variety of content, including Halo, 1883, Star Trek Picard, live events and the NFL

2022 Q2
https://ir.paramount.com/static-files/19c917ac-a92b-4e68-920a-db1264e56def
Paramount+ saw strong acquisition and engagement from a variety of content led by Halo, 1883, The Lost City, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Jackass Forever, Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, and the UEFA Champions League.

2022 Q3
https://ir.paramount.com/static-files/6ede049c-a7f4-4631-94f6-33a621f03818
Paramount+ subscriber growth was driven by launches in international markets as well as the start of the NFL season, UEFA Champions League, and the launch of the Walmart+ partnership

2022 Q4
https://ir.paramount.com/static-files/4fc1fca3-9362-4dd6-89b3-13a49c9e8411
Subscriber growth was driven by a strong content slate, including the NFL, the expansion of existing franchises like Top Gun: Maverick and 1923, the success of new franchises like Tulsa King and Smile, as well as CBS’s overall entertainment slate.

Can you see the pattern?
1883 is on the list of top "subscription/acquisition and/or engagement/consumption" drivers for three consecutive quarters.
Halo is on the list of top "subscription/acquisition and/or engagement/consumption" drivers for two consecutive quarters.

Star Trek Picard was mentioned in one quarter (2022 Q1).
Star Trek Strange New Worlds was mentioned in one quarter (2022 Q2).

Do you notice what is missing? Star Trek Discovery.
If it was a success it should have been on the list of top "subscription/acquisition and/or engagement/consumption" drivers in 2021 Q4, but it's not.

Other IPs are driving subscription/acquisition and/or engagement/consumption in multiple consecutive quarters, sometimes two quarters after the quarter the show was released.
Star Trek IPs are only driving subscription/acquisition and/or engagement/consumption in one quarter, the quarter they were released, or not at all.

 

[fireproof78]

How about "Paramount Investor Relations Earnings Materials":
https://ir.paramount.com/earnings-materials#menu

This is from the earnings report that Paramount Global is publishing quarterly.

In this report is a list of what content on Paramount+ drove subscription/acquisition and/or engagement/consumption (mostly it's a combined list, sometimes Paramount list the two metrics separately):




Can you see the pattern?
1883 is on the list of top "subscription/acquisition and/or engagement/consumption" drivers for three consecutive quarters.
Halo is on the list of top "subscription/acquisition and/or engagement/consumption" drivers for two consecutive quarters.

Star Trek Picard was mentioned in one quarter (2022 Q1).
Star Trek Strange New Worlds was mentioned in one quarter (2022 Q2).

Do you notice what is missing? Star Trek Discovery.
If it was a success it should have been on the list of top "subscription/acquisition and/or engagement/consumption" drivers in 2021 Q4, but it's not.

Other IPs are driving subscription/acquisition and/or engagement/consumption in multiple consecutive quarters, sometimes two quarters after the quarter the show was released.
Star Trek IPs are only driving subscription/acquisition and/or engagement/consumption in one quarter, the quarter they were released, or not at all.

So none of Star Trek is a success. Cancel it all.

I welcome the cancellation of the rest of the Trek shows then. Shall I send you the congratulatory letter?

 

[TerryTrek]

It's basically been confirmed that the Picard Season 3 sets (including the Titan) have been trashed.

Could be a sign no show is on the horizon, but it could also just be that if they do film it's solely gonna be in Canada now, because it would have been more expensive to move the sets than just do a total rebuild.

I think the Titan was always meant to be a one-season ship. By Episode 10, we would have gotten enough of it.

Ideally a new series should be something new, something fresh. A new ship or starbase. Something that could draw in new viewers and wouldn't require homework of watching what came before.