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Spoilers Canon, Continuity, and Pike's Accident

SNW doesn't strike me as the type of series that would stick to something if they didn't think it would work for them. They would've come up with something if they didn't want to go down that path themselves. They want to end up where TOS is, even if it doesn't look exactly the same. So, when it gets down to it, we can really blame what "The Menagerie" has preordained.

I still think Chris Pike's journey will not end with "The Menagerie." Honestly, now that we've spent 30-some episodes getting to know him, I think that ending would just be a disappointment. Just because the Talosians were unable to put Vina back together doesn't mean that they didn't have help. Illusion could go so far, but if the Talosians are that advanced, perhaps healing would be in the cards.
 
Just because the Talosians were unable to put Vina back together doesn't mean that they didn't have help. Illusion could go so far, but if the Talosians are that advanced, perhaps healing would be in the cards.
Isn't part of the problem that the Talosians no longer know how to use their tech?
 
Once they get past when "Balance of Terror" and "The Menagerie" take place, they can do whatever they want with Pike. The Talosians and Vina too. Totally open canvas.

The Talosians can re-learn, if they choose to go down that path.
 
Though we scorned some of Disco's script ideas at the time, the idea of Pike seeing his future, and choosing to lock into it in order to preserve any future for all, turned out to be far reaching and impactful in the end. But I especially like the way this evolved to being about Spock's fate as well - suddenly it was also very personal.
 
Once they get past when "Balance of Terror" and "The Menagerie" take place, they can do whatever they want with Pike. The Talosians and Vina too. Totally open canvas.

The Talosians can re-learn, if they choose to go down that path.

Particularly as you have Pike who can help re-train.
 
Though we scorned some of Disco's script ideas at the time, the idea of Pike seeing his future, and choosing to lock into it in order to preserve any future for all, turned out to be far reaching and impactful in the end. But I especially like the way this evolved to being about Spock's fate as well - suddenly it was also very personal.
There are reasons I'm not a huge fan of A Quality of Mercy but that last scene with Spock and Pike made me weep. So good.
 
There are reasons I'm not a huge fan of A Quality of Mercy but that last scene with Spock and Pike made me weep. So good.
And the overall storyline really adds something to TOS S1 The Menagerie Part I and Ii. Turns it from a nearly nonsensical WTF plot into something rather touching WRT Spock.

It also rehabilitates Lieutenant Uhura a bit in that one could assume she helped Spock in faking everything he needed to fake with respect to the message that brought them to Starbase 12.
 
In the thread "The TAS Redux That Might Have Been" in the TOS forum [https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-tas-redux-that-might-have-been.314043/], the question arose about whether TOS, TAS, DISCO, and SNW are in the same continuity. Since the question as it pertains to Pike's accident depends (at least in part) on the ongoing story elements of SNW, given what's transpired in "Children of the Comet" and "A Quality of Mercy," I think it is more appropriate to continue the discussion in the SNW forum.

This discussion will include spoilers of existing SNW episodes, as well as speculation that might or might not be true about future SNW episodes.

@blssdwlf has stated that the continuities of TOS and SNW must be different, because, in his view, the future events shown in DISCO "Through the Valley of Shadows" do not line up with what we are told about the accident in "The Menagerie." From "The TAS Redux That Might Have Been":





From "The Menagerie, Part I" [http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/16.htm]:

MCCOY: What's his problem, Commodore?
MENDEZ: Inspection tour of a cadet vessel. Old Class J starship. One of the baffle plates ruptured.
MCCOY: The delta rays?
MENDEZ: He went in bringing out all those kids that were still alive. Just wanted you gentlemen to be prepared.​

So, my answer to this.

We already know the future surrounding these events can be changed. The entire premise of "A Quality of Mercy" is what happens if Pike prevents the cadets from being present at the accident in the first place, avoids the accident himself, and stays in command of the Enterprise. This was foreshadowed as a possibility in "Children of the Comet," when Number One insists that Pike might be able to change his fate. What haunts Pike the most in "A Quality of Mercy" is not that he will be disfigured, but rather that he will fail to save all of the cadets.

And now, to my proposal. I believe that, given the negative consequences in "A Quality of Mercy," Pike will resign himself not to try to avoid the accident or prevent any of the cadets from showing up. Rather, when it finally happens, even though he's been burned already, Pike's going to choose to stay inside and try to rescue everyone he can, including the two cadets that he believes are fated to die, the two he's been haunted about all along. It's this heroic act that Mendez will recall. It will be the one that seals Pike's fate and consigns him to the wheelchair. In other words, what we've seen so far in the snippets of the accident isn't enough to put Pike in that chair.

I think this has been foreshadowed by everything we've seen. I also think one cannot hang their hat on a few brief scenes of flash-forward, such as the ones presented in "Through the Valley of Shadows." In SNW, they've explicitly made the point that the future can be changed—with consequence. And we know that Pike is being moved to try to save the cadets.

So, what say you?

Is mine a plausible scenario?

Does any of this have any impact on whether TOS and SNW are in the same continuity? What are the determining factors as to whether TOS and SNW are in the same continuity?

Maybe there are other factors besides Pike's accident that have a bearing on the question of which Star Trek shows are in the same continuity.

Discuss!

Possible. But who knows. There are so many other plot holes an inconsistencies now it's going to be hard to make the shows really fit at all.
 
Possible. But who knows. There are so many other plot holes an inconsistencies now it's going to be hard to make the shows really fit at all.
Only if one cares not to try.

Last I checked, Trekkies were famous for making everything fit. I guess that's passe' though. It's more fun to blame time travel or multiple universes or some variation there of.
 
Only if one cares not to try.

Last I checked, Trekkies were famous for making everything fit. I guess that's passe' though. It's more fun to blame time travel or multiple universes or some variation there of.

Im one of the trekkies that likes to make everything fit. At least the obvious stuff
 
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It also rehabilitates Lieutenant Uhura a bit in that one could assume she helped Spock in faking everything he needed to fake with respect to the message that brought them to Starbase 12.
How was Uhura in need of rehabilitation? Just because SNW established that she knew Pike?
 
How do you know she didn't? People in the military aren't able to do whatever they want at all times.
Because she wasn't there on the screen. Occam's razor.
(and yes, the real reason is TOS S1 The Menagerie was done in 1966 and SNW done in 2021. But again SNW helps make the setup less ridiculous by supposing Uhura was helping Spock in anything related to this situation.)
 
Because she wasn't there on the screen. Occam's razor.
(and yes, the real reason is TOS S1 The Menagerie was done in 1966 and SNW done in 2021. But again SNW helps make the setup less ridiculous by supposing Uhura was helping Spock in anything related to this situation.)
OK, just to make sure I'm getting this correct...

We're simultaneously assuming that Uhura DIDN'T ask to see Pike offscreen in "The Menagerie" and yet she ALSO somehow secretly helped Spock with his plan to take Pike to Talos IV sometime before "The Menagerie"? And Spock chose to confide in Lt. Uhura with this plan and NOT his best friend Captain Kirk?

Do I have that right?
 
I can see them limiting the number of people visiting Pike at one time. Also, Kirk has no clue what the situation with Pike is when he and Spock beam down. So there would be no reason for Uhura to beam down with them.
 
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