Spoilers Canon, Continuity, and Pike's Accident

[Noname Given]

OK, just to make sure I'm getting this correct...

We're simultaneously assuming that Uhura DIDN'T ask to see Pike offscreen in "The Menagerie" and yet she ALSO somehow secretly helped Spock with his plan to take Pike to Talos IV sometime before "The Menagerie"? And Spock chose to confide in Lt. Uhura with this plan and NOT his best friend Captain Kirk?

Do I have that right?

He says why he didn't want to confide in Captain Kirk - "And ask you to face the Death Penalty too?"

Uhura may have helped with the message that got Spock to Starbase 12; but she didn't actually do the kidnapping of Pike as Spock did order the ship to proceed to Talos IV. If Kirk had been a part of the plan, he would have ordered the ship to Talos IV; and been charged with the DP. (Remember the actual Court Martial proceeding against Spoch WAS a ruse to distract Kirk from trying to regain control of the ship and the real Commodore Mendez back at SB12 (Probably working to get Starfleet to allow Pike to go there.) Spock probably thought that since Fleet Command knew the real reason contact was forbidden - given the situation - they would probably allow it; but Spock wanted to make sure IF it ultimately went south, only he would take the blame/punishment.
^^^
It also explains WHY Pike was so pissed. He went through the accident to keep Spock from dying and screwing over the Universe; but here was Spock potentially risking the Death Penalty to help Pike have a better life post accident.

This also shows that Pike himself never told Spock the reason he had to go through the accident. And, if Spock did know, then Spock WAS being stupid here with this whole thing.

 

[Donald G]

OK, just to make sure I'm getting this correct...

We're simultaneously assuming that Uhura DIDN'T ask to see Pike offscreen in "The Menagerie" and yet she ALSO somehow secretly helped Spock with his plan to take Pike to Talos IV sometime before "The Menagerie"? And Spock chose to confide in Lt. Uhura with this plan and NOT his best friend Captain Kirk?

Do I have that right?

And that's why I do not buy the theory that Lt. Uhura was in on Spock's plan, for the exact reason Spock did not let Kirk in on it. " Ask you to face the death penalty, too? One of us enough, Captain."

If Uhura (or anyone else from Pike's old crew) knowingly assisted Spock, that would make them co-conspirators and subject to the penalties for breaking General Order Seven.

 

[Noname Given]

And that's why I do not buy the theory that Lt. Uhura was in on Spock's plan, for the exact reason Spock did not let Kirk in on it. " Ask you to face the death penalty, too? One of us enough, Captain."

If Uhura (or anyone else from Pike's old crew) knowingly assisted Spock, that would make them co-conspirators and subject to the penalties for breaking General Order Seven.

No. The charge falls on the person who gave the order. And Uhura was not the Captain or Commanding officer of the ship involved. If you really extend your logic that would make all 430 crewmembers guilty if they didn't stop the ship from getting to Talos IV.

 

[Mudd]

Uhura and Spock were close to Pike and had served with him. He and Spock were friends.

Assuming that they were in on the plot together fixes one of the significant failings of "The Menagerie's" envelope story, and there were many. It's a really bad narrative, but I suppose it suffices for the purpose.

Calling Kirk "Spock's best friend" assumes something that was not much in evidence at the time the episode was made.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Uhura may have helped with the message that got Spock to Starbase 12; but she didn't actually do the kidnapping of Pike as Spock did order the ship to proceed to Talos IV.

Exactly. Uhura probably had no idea what Spock's ultimate plan was; all he asked her to do was help get the Enterprise to the starbase. She's not responsible for anything that happened after that.

 

[DanK]

I’m hoping that Captain Pike knows what and when things happen and is able to prevent them from happening!

 

[fireproof78]

I’m hoping that Captain Pike knows what and when things happen and is able to prevent them from happening!

If he does, someone else ends up dying as shown in the episode "A Quality of Mercy."

 

[DanK]

Nothing is written in stone, especially today. Maybe he wakes up one day and the visions were a dream. Far stretch, right.

 

[fireproof78]

Nothing is written in stone, especially today. Maybe he wakes up one day and the visions were a dream. Far stretch, right.

Pike has accepted his fate, and will continue to live his life per his values, rather than in avoidance.

Seems legit to me.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Pike is going to go through the accident and be crippled by the Delta radiation. DSC and SNW have made it pretty clear that this event is set in stone.

But Star Trek has never officially established anything* about what happened to Pike after the events of "The Menagerie" in 2267. Pretty much anything can happen after that. It wouldn't shock me if the last episode of SNW gives Pike a happier ending of some kind, since we're all going to be braced for a tragedy.

*(We've had a few novels and comic book stories about Pike set in the post-"Menagerie" era, but of course none of that is binding on live action Trek. And whatever filmed Trek does will be the new canon.)

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Pike is going to go through the accident and be crippled by the Delta radiation. DSC and SNW have made it pretty clear that this event is set in stone.

...and it should be. "The Menagerie" elevated Pike from a character no TOS first-run viewers ever heard of before to an instantly tragic, memorable hero, especially when viewers learned (courtesy of "The Cage" footage) how troubled he was in his past, only to end up severely disabled, as if his fate was always dark. That realization made the repurposed pilot footage of "second chance" Pike reuniting with Vina a powerful, brilliantly crafted finale for the character, and one of the franchise's shining chapters.

 

[mattman8907]

Besides The menagerie should any other TOS episodes be reimagined?

 

[Mudd]

Besides The menagerie should any other TOS episodes be reimagined?

"Arena," obviously. And "Amok Time."

 

[Tallguy]

"Arena," obviously. And "Amok Time."

Let's re-do Arena and completely ignore that anyone had ever heard of the Gorn before. We can't get bogged down in Trekkie minutia.

It could be interesting to re-do Operation Annihilate and make it more of a Sam and Jim story.

 

[mattman8907]

Let's re-do Arena and completely ignore that anyone had ever heard of the Gorn before. We can't get bogged down in Trekkie minutia.

It could be interesting to re-do Operation Annihilate and make it more of a Sam and Jim story.

Operation: Annihilate would be interesting. Also to see what kind of relationship Jim had with his nephews.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

"Errand of Mercy" could be interesting with either TNG Klingons or the Disco ones reinterpreted as a surgically altered version of the Augment Klingons.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Honestly, I see literally nothing interesting in explorations of either how or why some Klingons have bumpy foreheads and others don't. Never did, still don't.

 

[Tallguy]

"Errand of Mercy" could be interesting with either TNG Klingons or the Disco ones reinterpreted as a surgically altered version of the Augment Klingons.

What would be different about the episode? Other than getting to see bumpy heads?

Acting is hard and anyone who can do it professionally is almost always a cut above, even in a "bad" performance. But we're talking about trying to equal John Calicos. We've seen how that worked out with Mark Lenard. (As the Romulan Commander. Obviously James Frain is amazing as Sarek.)

I suppose if you're going to go crazy and really pull in all the Disco / SNW Klingon War history into the mix it could be interesting. Heck it might be a two parter at that point.

OTOH I think the worse you make the Klingons the worse the Organians come off looking.

Honestly, I see literally nothing interesting in explorations of either how or why some Klingons have bumpy foreheads and others don't. Never did, still don't.

The only way it would ever be vaguely interesting is if you ever saw any of the various Klingon "races" interacting and if that even meant anything.

 

[fireproof78]

"Errand of Mercy" could be interesting with either TNG Klingons or the Disco ones reinterpreted as a surgically altered version of the Augment Klingons.

How?
Unless it's a full threat of a ground war and showing more ranks, what is additive to a classic story?

 

[Unimatrix Q]

How?
Unless it's a full threat of a ground war and showing more ranks, what is additive to a classic story?

As @Tallguy mentioned before, some interaction between the TNG Klingons and the augmented ones (and/or the Disco Klingons, if they decide to replace or add them to the original version).