Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

[Hartzilla2007]

She could well be redeemable.

She was coldblooded enough to play a guy into volunteering for experiments that were going to kill him, threatened to murder a child, blow up up a man and possibly had him converted into a cybernetic hitman, and has no problem killing people she works with the moment they aren't useful anymore.

There is no coming back from that.

Sure, Mike would need some assurance that his son was safe,

He already said he wouldn't believe them.

but it might be possible to persuade him if enough arguments are brought to bear, and the Nazi ties are one argument that could help.

Only if he believe's Garrett gives a crap about HYDRA's Nazis ties seeing as 1) The current version of HYDRA seems to have dropped them for the most part, and 2) (and most importantly) He doesn't, he's just backing the winning side.

Lets remember this isn't so much traditional HYDRA as Garrett's private army after Pierce died.

Besides I'm pretty everyone in the MCU probably already knows Red Skull used to belong to the Nazis Party so it would probably be old news anyway.

 

[bbjeg]

So they lost the base and the bus in one episode? I have no idea how they are going to bounce back at this point.

They still have Lola! And a pool!

I just remembered, they still have a smaller passenger jet and the location of the bus, until the transponder is removed.

And a few screens:

Major Glenn Talbot: BMF.

Deathlok, not Mike.

Lola in action.

And Coulson's "Wait, what?" face.

 

[Reverend]

Agreed. The pitfall of being in a shared universe, where the movies taken precedence. It makes no sense for the show to maintain Coulson's dead status to the The Avengers. Allies connected to several are aware-and have known for some time, that Phil's alive. Sif knows, so why keep Thor in the dark...Maria Hill now works for Stark, so why can't Tony be told? Too many SHIELD agents know...It's the second worst kept secret ever. But he 'died' in the movie, so it can't be overridden by the series.

I'm half expecting in Avengers 2, that he'll walk thru the door, and the team doesn't blink...because they figured it out already, and he'll go "awww nutz!"

I may have misinterpreted, but the end of Thor 2 seems to suggest Thor has left Asgard and is living on Earth with Jane (presumably under the old Donald Blake identity from the comics.)

Having said that, it seems at odds with Sif's appearance as you'd think she'd mention that he was already on Midgard, or at least no longer living at home.

As for the rest...yes Romanov, Rogers and Barton were in SHIELD, but it's been very well established how compartmentalised Fury kept things. Any agent who knew Coulson was still alive, wouldn't volunteer that information to another agent who didn't already know unless specifically authorised to do so (unless they're both really Hydra double-agents of course.) It's pretty fundamental to any intelligence operative's training.

As for right now, Cap is himself off the grid so he's in no position to find out unless Coulson shows up on CNN. Romanov appears to be very much in the public eye along with Hill (perhaps now also working with Stark?) so it's conceivable she'll find out before long depending on how tight lipped Hill decides to be.
Barton...well AFAIK we know nothing about his actions or whereabouts since the end of Avengers, so it's hard to say. Going by Selvig's condition in Thor 2, it's possible he also suffered some long term effects of the staff and so has been out of action ever since. Indeed, his absence in TWS felt rather conspicuous. I mean they didn't even give him a throwaway line like "Barton's still in a coma" or "still on that deep cover assignment".

But yeah, Stark not knowing for much longer seems to stretch credibility a bit, especially given the data dump and his having access to quite possible more raw processing power than any other single person on earth. Plus JARVIS.

Presumably Banner is still at Avengers Tower in New York, so in that regard what Stark knows, he probably knows as and when.

So regarding Tahiti, Coulson was in charge. But then resigned. And then died. And then was brought back by Tahiti. On someone's orders other than Fury's.

Do I have that right? So the question is, who gave the order to revive Coulson?

My read on it is that Fury ordered the procedure, but it was Coulson's standing recommendation that dictated the use of false memory implants and mind-wipes.

Personally, I'm curious as to who else they were trying this on. Did any of them survive? Were the psychotics ones put down or taken to the fridge?

Speaking of the fridge; is that where Blonsky's cryocell was kept? I mean where else would they put him? I think it's fair to say he has to be pretty high on Garrett's shopping list.

 

[Christopher]

She could well be redeemable.

She was coldblooded enough to play a guy into volunteering for experiments that were going to kill him, threatened to murder a child, blow up up a man and possibly had him converted into a cybernetic hitman, and has no problem killing people she works with the moment they aren't useful anymore.

There is no coming back from that.

Akela and Mike did similarly awful things, and they were under coercion. As I already pointed out, we learned recently that Raina seems to have some deep personal need that she expected "the Clairvoyant" to fill. For all we know, she's just as trapped as Mike is, driven to save or find someone dear to her and willing to make a deal with the devil in exchange. I'm not saying she'll ever be a candidate for sainthood, but now that she already feels betrayed and disappointed to discover that Garrett's clairvoyance was a lie, it's possible she could turn on him given the right incentive.

Sure, Mike would need some assurance that his son was safe,

He already said he wouldn't believe them.

As the past few weeks should make overwhelmingly clear, the status quo at a given moment in the series cannot predict how things might change in the future -- and how characters might change in response. Heck, if characters always reacted in an exactly predictable and unvarying way, they'd have no arcs, and modern TV storytelling is all about arcs. Mike has already gone from aspiring superhero to rage-fueled maniac to gung-ho SHIELD trainee to entrapped pawn of Centipede to ruthless Terminator. He's changed a great deal over the course of the season, so we can't rule out further changes.

Indeed, why set up Deathlok as a sympathetic character and a victim to begin with if all they wanted was a one-note villain with no prospect of redemption? They wouldn't develop him to this point and then just stop.

Besides I'm pretty everyone in the MCU probably already knows Red Skull used to belong to the Nazis Party so it would probably be old news anyway.

People often try to fool themselves and gloss over uncomfortable truths they don't want to face. Forcing them to acknowledge and confront those truths can influence their decisions. Thousands and thousands of works of fiction have climaxed with one character forcing another to confront a truth they didn't want to face, to stop lying to themselves and admit what was really going on.

 

[Skywalker]

Barton...well AFAIK we know nothing about his actions or whereabouts since the end of Avengers, so it's hard to say. Going by Selvig's condition in Thor 2, it's possible he also suffered some long term effects of the staff and so has been out of action ever since. Indeed, his absence in TWS felt rather conspicuous. I mean they didn't even give him a throwaway line like "Barton's still in a coma" or "still on that deep cover assignment".

From what I've heard, there was a line in TWS mentioning Barton's whereabouts, but the scene in which it took place was cut. Maybe it'll be on the Blu-ray.

 

[Enterprise1701]

I'm a bit frustrated that they still haven't properly identified the "Guest House" alien. I kind of hope that if it is in fact Kree, then Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. will use it as part of a direct crossover with Guardians of the Galaxy. But how? Guardians of the Galaxy comes out in August before the fall TV season.

 

[Captain Craig]

also ps. Do Marvel/Disney now have the rights to Man-Thing or is it still Lionsgate?

Also back at Marvel Studios.

I was rewatching Avengers last night and the scene where Steve is watching the iPad video of the Hulk and asking about Banner Coulson mentions in that exchange "a lot of guys did". Referring to working with the serum post Erskine.
Clearly Ted Sallis can now fit into that blanket statement anytime a TV show/film might want to incorporate him.

Also, see Uncanny Avengers Annual #1(out today) for Man-Thing's inclusion on the Dr.Strange lead Avengers of the Supernatural.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Well, it had Ward claim that modern HYDRA has nothing to do with the Nazis, but it came off as pretty feeble and unconvincing, like he was making excuses for belonging to a group with more malevolent roots than he's willing to admit. I'm glad, in fact, that Skye did stress the organization's links to the Nazis, because it's something that needs to be said. (In particular, it's something that should be pointed out to Raina and Mike -- it might help them re-evaluate their loyalties.)

I think it shows that HYDRA had Nazi roots and is still seen by a Nazi organization by most, but not seen that way by many or most of the HYDRA members.

I may have misinterpreted, but the end of Thor 2 seems to suggest Thor has left Asgard and is living on Earth with Jane (presumably under the old Donald Blake identity from the comics.)

I think that's true (although exactly when he arrived is unclear, just that it was some time later).

 

[Guy Gardener]

Really, I thought that Ward had never considered that he was a Nazi.

And then when he did right then, there was a massive internal facepalm.

Clark Gregg was on @midnight last was a celebrity narrator reading a creepy Craig's list ad.

 

[Reverend]

Well, it had Ward claim that modern HYDRA has nothing to do with the Nazis, but it came off as pretty feeble and unconvincing, like he was making excuses for belonging to a group with more malevolent roots than he's willing to admit. I'm glad, in fact, that Skye did stress the organization's links to the Nazis, because it's something that needs to be said. (In particular, it's something that should be pointed out to Raina and Mike -- it might help them re-evaluate their loyalties.)

I think it shows that HYDRA had Nazi roots and is still seen by a Nazi organization by most, but not seen that way by many or most of the HYDRA members.

Pretty much I think. To my mind it's similar to the attitude of Kevin Bacon's character from 'X-Men: First Class'; that the Nazi ideal of the ideal "supreme human" is pitifully narrow minded.

Doesn't mean they're in any arbitrary way "better" than Nazis, just that they have more imagination and, as Zola pointed out, they actually have the capability to achieve their insane plans.

I may have misinterpreted, but the end of Thor 2 seems to suggest Thor has left Asgard and is living on Earth with Jane (presumably under the old Donald Blake identity from the comics.)

I think that's true (although exactly when he arrived is unclear, just that it was some time later).

Couldn't have been that long after. The next day maybe? It's not like he'd have a reason to stick around long after his little talk with "Odin".

For one thing it's established that SHIELD developed the ability to track an approaching bifrost portal, presumably after the events in Greewich. If Thor had returned much later then you'd think they'd have at least known someone from Asgard had arrived in London.

I'm a bit frustrated that they still haven't properly identified the "Guest House" alien. I kind of hope that if it is in fact Kree, then Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. will use it as part of a direct crossover with Guardians of the Galaxy. But how? Guardians of the Galaxy comes out in August before the fall TV season.

Maybe they'll pick up a thread left at the end of the movie? Or maybe the crossover (because it's a foregone conclusion, no?) will be more oblique like the Lady Sif episode.

Personally I'm not at all frustrated. They've just dropped several bombshells, so i think it's fair to let that little mystery remain for a while. You can't expect them to reveal *everything* before the end of the season.

Besides it's obviously a Kree.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I forgot to include a shout-out for the Lola sequence. As soon as Coulson lowered the ramp, I knew how he planned to escape. The machine guns behind the headlights were just right for a spy car of Lola's vintage. And we saw here a demonstration of why Ward didn't hop into Lola when Simmons needed to be saved.

They must have quite an effects budget to give us Lola this week and apparently CGI-de-aging next week.

I also quite liked Skye in this episode, up until she caved to save Ward. I get that it was true to her character, but Peterson was wrong...refusing to cave wouldn't have made her a murderer, it would have made him one...and there's a slippery slope when good guys capitulate too readily in hostage situations.

I like that the show acknowledged the Nazi/Hydra connection, making clear that people like Ward don't necessarily see themselves as Nazis.

On the subject of Raina being portrayed with a hint of sympathy...that's one of the pieces that has me suspicious of a potential change of loyalties on Simmons's part. They've established that Raina also has some overlapping skills with Simmons, so they could be planning a switcheroo down the road.

And yet another Romanoff reference. If I were making rules for an Agents of SHIELD drinking game, it would be drink once if an Avenger is mentioned, drink twice if it's Romanoff.

I just had a thought -- if Project TAHITI was conceived to revive Avengers fallen in battle, then doesn't that make Coulson an honorary Avenger now?

He could be their Rick Jones...if only they knew he was alive.

Speaking of the fridge; is that where Blonsky's cryocell was kept? I mean where else would they put him? I think it's fair to say he has to be pretty high on Garrett's shopping list.

I think they did previously reference Blonsky as being at the Fridge...but would Garrett be stupid enough to release him if he had no means of controlling him...?

Coulson experiences a horrific flashback to forgotten elements of his old life when he finally catches the episode of Seinfeld in which Elaine dances.

 

[Christopher]

I think it shows that HYDRA had Nazi roots and is still seen by a Nazi organization by most, but not seen that way by many or most of the HYDRA members.

Which, as I said, is probably a rationalization. Heck, plenty of people working for the Nazis during WWII itself had to rationalize hugely in order to convince themselves it was valid to do the atrocious things they did. Without such rationalizations and self-delusions, evil would get far less of a foothold in the world because more people would refuse to go along with it.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Well, it had Ward claim that modern HYDRA has nothing to do with the Nazis, but it came off as pretty feeble and unconvincing, like he was making excuses for belonging to a group with more malevolent roots than he's willing to admit. I'm glad, in fact, that Skye did stress the organization's links to the Nazis, because it's something that needs to be said. (In particular, it's something that should be pointed out to Raina and Mike -- it might help them re-evaluate their loyalties.)

I think it shows that HYDRA had Nazi roots and is still seen by a Nazi organization by most, but not seen that way by many or most of the HYDRA members.

Pretty much I think. To my mind it's similar to the attitude of Kevin Bacon's character from 'X-Men: First Class'; that the Nazi ideal of the ideal "supreme human" is pitifully narrow minded.

Doesn't mean they're in any arbitrary way "better" than Nazis, just that they have more imagination and, as Zola pointed out, they actually have the capability to achieve their insane plans.

Plus sticking to Nazis ideology limits HYDRA's recruitment prospects which kills their could be anyone thing, makes the infiltrators in Shield easier to pin down, and kind of makes it hard to be a multinational terrorist organization attempting to take over the world by spreading destruction, chaos, and death around.

 

[bbjeg]

Speaking of the fridge; is that where Blonsky's cryocell was kept? I mean where else would they put him? I think it's fair to say he has to be pretty high on Garrett's shopping list.

Spoiler: Marvel One Shot.

In The Consultant, we find out SHIELD didn't want Blonsky and they sent Stark to make sure Ross didn't hand him over.

 

[The Old Mixer]

^That was in reference to recruiting him as an Avenger. A prior episode referenced Blonsky as being at a SHIELD facility, and I believe it was the Fridge.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You might be thinking of the miniepisode the Consultant.

General Ross has Blonski, and S.H.I.E.L.D. was obliged to ask for him because of pressure from above, but becuase they didn't actually want him, they had Stark approach the General.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

also ps. Do Marvel/Disney now have the rights to Man-Thing or is it still Lionsgate?

Also back at Marvel Studios.

They bought it back for $10.

 

[Christopher]

I also quite liked Skye in this episode, up until she caved to save Ward. I get that it was true to her character, but Peterson was wrong...refusing to cave wouldn't have made her a murderer, it would have made him one...and there's a slippery slope when good guys capitulate too readily in hostage situations.

But it would've made her someone who chose not to save a life when she had the opportunity, and that's not as morally neutral as you suggest. It's easy to talk about killing fictional characters or letting them die as a viable choice, but in real life, most people who aren't psychopaths would find that a far, far harder choice to make. And I wish more writers would remember that and not have their characters accept or deliver death so casually. So I applaud them for Skye's choice here.

And yet another Romanoff reference. If I were making rules for an Agents of SHIELD drinking game, it would be drink once if an Avenger is mentioned, drink twice if it's Romanoff.

I had a nice delayed laugh reaction when Ward called Natasha "eye candy" and Hill said "I'll tell her you said that." As in, "I'll tell the most dangerous woman on Earth that you insulted her." Heh-heh-heh.

Speaking of the fridge; is that where Blonsky's cryocell was kept? I mean where else would they put him? I think it's fair to say he has to be pretty high on Garrett's shopping list.

I think they did previously reference Blonsky as being at the Fridge...but would Garrett be stupid enough to release him if he had no means of controlling him...?

In "T.R.A.C.K.S." it was mentioned that Blonsky is in a cryocell in a facility in Barrow, Alaska. Now, "Repairs" said that the Fridge is a six-hour northward flight from Utah. But the Interwebs say that the typical Utah-to-Alaska travel time is four and a half hours or so by commercial air, so the Fridge is probably farther away.

 

[Yminale]

Plus sticking to Nazis ideology limits HYDRA's recruitment prospects which kills their could be anyone thing, makes the infiltrators in Shield easier to pin down, and kind of makes it hard to be a multinational terrorist organization attempting to take over the world by spreading destruction, chaos, and death around.

The Nazis were not as fanatical as people are lead to believe about race purity. German intelligent services would recruit anyone and there were several prominent Nazis with Jewish ancestry (including Hitler himself) that served openly. Strangely they didn't try very hard to prove you were Jewish (unless you became inconvenient). Also Nazis race theory was pretty eurocentric and they didn't hate other races with the same passion as they hated Jews, gypsy's and slavs.

 

[Yminale]

[
But it would've made her someone who chose not to save a life when she had the opportunity, and that's not as morally neutral as you suggest. It's easy to talk about killing fictional characters or letting them die as a viable choice, but in real life, most people who aren't psychopaths would find that a far, far harder choice to make. And I wish more writers would remember that and not have their characters accept or deliver death so casually. So I applaud them for Skye's choice here..

I didn't. I hate fake moralizing. They can't let Ward die so easily (well Whedon might) so of course poor Skye would chose to save his life. It's so plainly obvious that it felt insulting.