Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Trekker4747, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Luminus

    Luminus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes, like this gem: NCIS 2 IDIOTS 1 KEYBOARD

    :rolleyes::guffaw:
     
  2. Luminus

    Luminus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, for one thing Jessica Drew was a S.H.E.I.L.D. agent doubling as a Hydra Agent. The Rising Tide is thought to be a code name for Hydra. Skye's name and history is being deliberately hidden from us. Why? If she's just some nameless person, why hide her name. Coulson obviously knows what it is, as he's the one that cuts the conversation short when her name was being discussed on introduction. The only other double agent that I know of is the Black Widow, so she's out of the picture.
     
  3. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Any bets on if and when The Cavalry, Hawkeye and Black Widow go on a mission together in the comics?
     
  4. shivkala

    shivkala Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And that's how Ultron is born!

    [​IMG]

    So basically:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    "Is thought?" By whom? I've never heard that suggestion before. And it's pretty bizarre. The Rising Tide is clearly an analogue for "hacktivist" groups like Anonymous. Given the recurring theme in Whedon's shows of mistrust for authority and powerful institutions, I really doubt that a movement whose purpose is to be a gadfly toward those in power would be portrayed here as merely a front for a group of villains.
     
  6. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    Sure. So let's use Anonymous as a real life example...

    Anonymous doesn't rely on an individual to "hack" in real-time by typing code into a laptop.

    They write programs that do the "hacking" because a person can't think, type, or react fast enough to deal with security software, firewalls, etc.

    They pass these programs back and forth over ftp and each tests, improves, adds to them. It is a collaborative effort.

    This is only a portion of "hacking." Other issues are creating layers of anonymity so that their origin cannot be traced. Erasing their footprint. Finding phyiscal ways into a secured system.

    I'm not an expert, but this is a snapshot of what has to go on. The reality is, one person, no matter if they are a cute 20 year old with fabulous hair, cannot "hack" on their own.

    When Skye was shown to be still in contact with Rising Tide earlier in the season, I actually had more respect for the character. It was obvious that she didn't do it all by herself and would need a team to back her up. There was potential here for a great story.

    They writers abandoned this, and made her a magician. Here is the problem with that: It is like taking a cute 20 year old girl with great hair, who has a boyfriend who is a master martial artist, and he "shows" her a few things, and suddenly she is kicking Batman's ass.

    Christopher, your argument is that "hacking" is always treated this way. It isn't; Jeff Goldblum, your example, was a scientist who was an expert for most of his life with computers. Chloe on Smallville gained her highest level of "hacking" through powers she gained from Brainiac. Felicity on Arrow was the head of IT at a major corporation due to her years of study and computer science degrees. In comparison, what does Skye have? She had a smart boyfriend.

    This is why I don't believe in the character; because the writers haven't given me anything to believe in. She is badly written, and poorly developed. They could develop her and retcon her and show us, instead of telling us, how she is so skilled. But up until now they have not done this.

    May and Ward are competent fighters because they have been through years of SHIELD training, and they had enough natural ability to be selected for the program in the first place. They are the equivalent of Navy SEAL team, and this is a logical assumption of the whole premise of the show.

    Skye does not have this premise. She is beyond fantasy, she is not believable.

    And as far as I can see in the last few episodes, the writers are starting to get this, they are trying to retcon her and write in a different reason for having her on the team: her supposed high-level empathy.

    What we are left with is a pretty girl who succeeds by having sensitive emotions and who looks things up on her smart phone to solve problems. This is a template for how a typical teenage girl sees herself as "powerful."
     
  7. Photoman15

    Photoman15 Commodore Commodore

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    You're talking about not believing a girl can be an expert hacker because it's so far fetched in a world where getting hit with gamma rays can make you a big green monster, a Norse God has a magic hammer, a spider bite can give a teen powers, cosmic rays can make one of four be able to turn invisible, another to turn into rock, another into flame and the fourth be elastic. And you can't believe a 20 year old girl in 2013 can hack computers?
     
  8. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    LaxScrutiny,

    First off, what does any of that have to do with Hydra?

    Second off, you said that real hacking doesn't involve individuals and then say that Jeff Goldblum is allowed to do it because he spent years learning it. So you have to acknowledge that it's ok for at least some hacking to be done by individuals

    Third, not all hacking is done by a computer algorithm, it's done by exploiting vulnerabilities in the program software. I think you're thinking of a bruteforce attack with your example, but I could be wrong. Either way, she later used a computer program when she used Simmons to help her hack into SHIELD's computer, so that seems like it would satisfy your example. I don't recall her typing code in real time, but I could be wrong. If I'm wrong, I'll still maintain that it's unrealistic to expect anything realistic from television hackers. At this point, television hackers are based on other television hackers, not real life people in any sense of the word.
     
  9. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    First of all, that is a non sequitur. What does your statement have anything to do with what I've written? Are you trying to shut me down by making sarcastic comments?

    I am acknowledging that some hacking may be done by individiuals with degrees in computer science, decades of professional experience, and access to advanced mainframes and software of the US governement. What is it that you are acknowledging?

    This cannot be done in real time. For example, go to the website of Apple and exploit their vulnerabilities and get the schematics for their next Iphone. You can't do it, I can't do it, and Anonymous can't do it, not it the timeframe that Skye can do it. This is the equivalent of Skye beating up Batman.
    And this is an example of ridiculously bad writing. Coulsen puts a bracelet on her but DOESN'T LOOK TO SEE WHAT BRUTE FORCE HACKING PROGRAMS SHE HAS ON HER LAPTOP?
    She has programs written collaboratively by Rising Tide which SHIELD never bothered to look for. The only way she got through that door is a brute force attack, which against SHIELD mainframe would take weeks or months.

    Back in the 60s, someone would chop an opponent on the neck because they had some "Judo" training. That was bad writing then, and it would be bad writing now.

    The portrayal of Skye is BELOW the portrayal of other "hackers" on other genre shows and movies, as per the factual examples I've given. I haven't read anything from you to refute this.
     
  10. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Maybe you should look at the post you quoted?

    Why can't they be self-taught? I know someone who is a professional hacker (or, more specifically, his job is to find security holes in software and document them so they can be fixed). He is entirely self-taught, having some kind of business/finance type education in college and didn't have either a degree in computer science or decades of professional experience.

    Well, I don't think it was a brute force program she had, but I could be wrong. Hadn't she hacked into SHIELD previously? I would assume it's the same program.
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    I'd like to know how people are so sure about whether Skye is creating, modifying, or accessing programs in her toolkit and then configuring and running them to do all her hacking tasks. Because half the time, I can't see what's on her screen, nor can I see what keys she's hitting, and nor do I know what her keyboard shortcuts are set to. Not to mention, a lot of what she does happens off-camera anyway.

    As for Skye's probation bracelet, we can conclude that it must have features not unlike those of a firewall, so that it allows her to access certain programs and make certain connections online. That was already suggested upthread, even if not in those exact words. Certainly, and especially now that Skye is on probation, we can expect that SHIELD knows the total contents of the SHIELD devices that Skye has access to, at least insofar as that SHIELD algorithms can certify that her activity is in accordance with the terms of her probation. There are undoubtedly agents back at places like the Hub whose jobs include making sure of things like that.

    With respect to SHIELD trying to locate Rising Tide software, how we are supposed to be so sure what SHIELD has done between episodes? Last time I checked, Coulson's team isn't the only group of SHIELD agents. Maybe they'll come back in a future episode and say something like, "All the Rising Tide software we've analyzed yadda, yadda," or "All our attempts to find Rising Tide toolkits in the wild blah, blah."

    Also, the very idea that we could be told in this forum on good authority how Anonymous operates is lulzy.
     
  12. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Yeah, I agree on both accounts (the fact that she isn't typing code in real time bears emphasizing).

    For the bracelet, I feel it's surprisingly ambiguous about what it does. At first I thought it shut down her from using computers. But she used a computer in The Hub after Simmons ran the program for her. I thought it might just monitor her computer use, which I guess makes some sense, but it means that they know exactly what she did when she hacked in (and she probably knew that going in). But it wouldn't explain why she needed Simmons's help (except, perhaps, to get through that door).

    It might just be one of those things that is as useful or useless as the plot requires. I'm honestly surprised she still has it. It was important for The Hub, but it hasn't been relevant since. Maybe this week, when they're going after Centipede, they'll take it off.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's because it's only been a couple of episodes since then, and they've been focused more on other characters. By analogy, on USA Network's White Collar, Neal Caffrey is a con man on probation and wears a tracking anklet, and there are some episodes where the anklet is a significant plot point, but there are others where it never gets mentioned at all.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Skye has drunk the cool aide.

    Neil routinely steals lost U-Boats full of stolen Nazi treasure the instant they forget to monitor him for 5 minutes.
     
  15. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer The Mod You've Known for All These Years Moderator

    I don't have a problem with Skye being a "super-hacker"...it's been her gig from the beginning, and I'm used to the trope from shows like Smallville, where Chloe's hacking was just as magical before any alleged Brainiac plot development, which I don't recall. I don't know or care that much about the real-world details of hacking, and neither does the general audience. So she's the Tony Stark of hackers, whatever.

    And she would have SHIELD resources to work with these days.

    Not in the MCU, according to Sony and FOX. :p
     
  16. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    I fully expect Skye to earn her way out of the probation bracelet sooner or later. Maybe after "The Bridge", or perhaps in the run-up to Coulson and Skye finding out Exactly What's Being Kept From Each of Them.
     
  17. Luminus

    Luminus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Word around the web is that Hydra is behind The Rising Tide. In the 2nd episode, which mentions Hydra, Skye makes a speech about 100 people having 1% of the answer (i.e. multiple heads of the mythological Hydra).
     
  18. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Interesting.... Yeah, that could be a clue!
     
  19. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    Ummm...not so sure on that one.

    Wondering about that legal argument with the real-world Rising Tide organization re: the usage of the name. Has that been settled yet?
     
  20. Luminus

    Luminus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No. They have 5 more signatures to go before they reach their goal.:rolleyes: What a winy world we live in.