Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

[kitik]

I have no problem with her. In fact, I think the whole idea behind Skye is that she's not as smart, capable, and all-knowing as she thinks she is. She's cocky and opinionated, but she's out of her depth and needs to learn humility. She thinks she's ready for anything, but stumbles when she has to live up to her boasts. She thinks she has all the answers, but at least half the people on the Bus are wiser and better at this than she is, and she usually ends up being the one who has to learn something. She thinks she's hot and has a shot with Ward, but Ward ends up sleeping with the woman who's old enough to be her mother. So I think you're entirely wrong to assume that the creators are somehow blinded into thinking she's more impressive than she is. She herself is the only one who thinks that, and that's by the creators' design.

I think a lot of the people complaining misunderstood Skye's role in this episode. They showed her acting as if she was the only one who could connect with the safety inspector lady, but I think that was a bit of an intentional fake-out from the writers. Because May was able to get an actual personal connection going at the end between Tobias and the safety inspector that resolved the situation.

Perhaps the point of Skye's actions in this episode were to show that May is an actual human being too. They showed Skye intending to do something, but then they showed May actually performing the task in a manner that would fix the problem.

(Though I'm not sure that sending that guy to hell should actually count as fixing things.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

No one is a Mary-Sue on this show.

A Mary-Sue is someone who is over powered and over-used.

Seven of Fricking Nine.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I might agree with you if Coulson hadn't laid it on so thick. "From the moment I first met you, I knew you had a special talent that you only just exhibited this episode...

Not so. She had a pretty good read on Michael Peterson in the pilot.

When Coulson showed her the video of Peterson attacking his former boss, she said (Thanks, Hulu)...

"This is wrong. This is not... the guy I met. He was... He just needs a break."

Which is, I think, the kind of insight/talent Skye has that Coulson referred to.

 

[Trekker4747]

If anything a role Skye fills is the Cabbage Head. The every-man who has to have the techy stuff explained to them since she's surrounded by experts who have no reason to explain these things to themselves.

 

[The Old Mixer]

They showed her acting as if she was the only one who could connect with the safety inspector lady, but I think that was a bit of an intentional fake-out from the writers. Because May was able to get an actual personal connection going at the end between Tobias and the safety inspector that resolved the situation.

Now that, I think, is getting closer to the truth than others in the Skye corner. Because another aspect of Skye's particularly obnoxious behavior in this episode is that she suddenly had major issues with May...which might have made sense if she knew about May and Ward, but we were given no indication that she did.

"This is wrong. This is not... the guy I met. He was... He just needs a break."

Which is, I think, the kind of insight/talent Skye has that Coulson referred to.

Wow...the specialness of her specialness overwhelms me.

It's the kind of insight that anyone might have if they'd been the only one on the team who'd actually met the guy at that point.

You're also conveniently leaving out how, in her first scene with him, she was encouraging him to become a super-hero, which actually fed his power-induced delusions of grandeur, making him dangerous.

Coulson's main reason for recruiting Skye at that point may have been to keep her off the streets.

If anything a role Skye fills is the Cabbage Head. The every-man who has to have the techy stuff explained to them since she's surrounded by experts who have no reason to explain these things to themselves.

I'd refer to that character as "the Watson."

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Wow...the specialness of her specialness overwhelms me.

It's the kind of insight that anyone might have if they'd been the only one on the team who'd actually met the guy at that point.

You're also conveniently leaving out how, in her first scene with him, she was encouraging him to become a super-hero, which actually fed his power-induced delusions of grandeur, making him dangerous.

Coulson's main reason for recruiting Skye at that point may have been to keep her off the streets.

This kind of undermines your point, doesn't it? It suggests she isn't all that special and isn't very good at things. I thought your point was that she was unrealistically special and good at things.

 

[The Old Mixer]

My point is that she's treated as if she's more special than she has actually proven to be. Coulson gives her trophies just for showing up.

 

[Gaith]

And is she even being paid? 'Cause unpaid internships totally suck, and shouldn't be legal, even for SHIELD.

 

[Christopher]

My point is that she's treated as if she's more special than she has actually proven to be. Coulson gives her trophies just for showing up.

Completely false. She's a skilled hacker, she showed she could handle herself well in "The Asset," and she's shown she has a good heart as well as occasionally demonstrating good insights. Like any other character, she's got a mix of positive traits and flaws. Coulson treats her as someone who has potential that's a long way from being fully realized. And we have been shown both sides of that.

 

[The Old Mixer]

And we come right back down to the creators so far not having the courage to put her in a situation where she's completely in the wrong / jeopardizes the mission and it isn't sugar-coated at the end.

Somehow I've become seen as the model Skye-hater around these parts, when I was giving her every benefit of the doubt prior to this episode. This episode turned the tide for me because of just how obnoxiously the character was portrayed (complete with getting a pat on the head at the end for her obnoxiousness).

 

[DEWLine]

Well, this could have been expected:

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2013/11/29/marvels-agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-upsets-hindu-group/

Not counting on the apology happening soon, though.

 

[Christopher]

And we come right back down to the creators so far not having the courage to put her in a situation where she's completely in the wrong / jeopardizes the mission and it isn't sugar-coated at the end.

Or, we come right down to you personally not liking what they're doing with the character. I can't see the problem myself.

 

[The Old Mixer]

So you find nothing lacking in the execution/realization of this character thus far?

 

[Christopher]

What is it about Western civilization that brainwashes us to reduce everything to black vs. white? No, I didn't say there's nothing lacking. Of course there's room for improvement, as there always is in most everything. But I don't find it terrible either. I find it okay.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

My point is that she's treated as if she's more special than she has actually proven to be. Coulson gives her trophies just for showing up.

Alright, I'm going to bow out of this conversation now, but you'd have to admit that this is very, very far from the definition of Mary Sue. "Overrated from an in-universe perspective" perhaps, but that doesn't strike me as meaning much.

And we come right back down to the creators so far not having the courage to put her in a situation where she's completely in the wrong / jeopardizes the mission and it isn't sugar-coated at the end.

We're about ten episodes in, so there's certainly still a possibility of that. It's still early. They might not simply because they did something very similar to that in The Girl With the Flower Dress (and it wasn't sugarcoated at the end, imo), so they may not want to look like they're repeating things.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Chess.

Subliminally we all play this game that forces black vs. white, us vs. them and Good vs. Evil.

Don't the sets depicting red vs. Yellow look weird?

 

[The Old Mixer]

What is it about Western civilization that brainwashes us to reduce everything to black vs. white?

That's a rather offensive generalization to make in response to a direct, harmless question that was, in fact, attempting to evoke some grayness concerning your own opinion of the character. "Black and white", in my book, would be unconditionally defending a character as if she were above criticism.

No, I didn't say there's nothing lacking. Of course there's room for improvement, as there always is in most everything. But I don't find it terrible either. I find it okay.

I find a discussion more interesting...and honest...if people are willing to concede a point once in a while, as I did in response to kitik's evaluation of Skye's role in the episode. If you have some items on your "cons" list for Skye, feel free to share.

Alright, I'm going to bow out of this conversation now, but you'd have to admit that this is very, very far from the definition of Mary Sue.

I thought we were well past the back and forth about the use of the term "Mary Sue". I conceded a couple of times in previous posts that the term didn't fit her.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

No, I didn't get that, I just thought you had a slightly different definition. I said from the beginning that her greatest weakness is that she isn't as useful as other characters. I'm not sure how we ended up down this rabbit hole if we agreed on this.

 

[Gryffindorian]

No, she definitely isn't as useful as Fitz-Simmons or everyone else, but she has proven her resourcefulness as a hacker or infiltrator on a few occasions.

 

[Christopher]

I find a discussion more interesting...and honest...if people are willing to concede a point once in a while, as I did in response to kitik's evaluation of Skye's role in the episode. If you have some items on your "cons" list for Skye, feel free to share.

At this point I'm content to fall back on de gustibus non est disputandem. This is a difference of opinion, not a question of fact. No character works for everyone.