Narada Tech Specs

[Herkimer Jitty]

In the future, we won't need to have debates on Trek Tech. Our iPods could do it for us.

 

[Vance]

In the future, we won't need to have debates on Trek Tech. Our iPods could do it for us.

We won't have iPods... we'll have iPod APPS that then have iPods on them. :P

THOSE will argue Trek Tech.

 

[Vincent Law]

Because, dramatically, it was more important to reinforce the idea that Kirk was The Captain Of The Ship by having him sit in the Chair where which the Captain places his self.

Except it still doesn't make any sense. It looks like he's just sitting back and watching right after the whole plot contrivance of the autopilot being down was just established.

Dare you to take your hands off the wheel next time you're on the freeway and see how simple it is to keep going in a straight line for any significant distance traveling at high speed.

Space doesn't have bumps and variances in its surface the way a road does, and starships don't have to worry about the air pressure being a little different in each tire, or the balance in the rims being a little off, or the alignment of the suspension being a little off. It's not even like an ocean or other body of water where currents and wind speed and direction can throw off an otherwise straight course of a boat or a ship. Here the only thing to throw the ship off are the missile impacts, and that depends on how many get through the defenses. There's also the fact that the ship is practically there already when it starts its collision course. At that distance, there isn't a lot that can happen to prevent a collision from happening between those two ships. Even the Narda attempting to take evasive action instead of just trying to blow the ship up wouldn't have done much to help it, and even if they'd blown the ship up, guess what, the debris which still makes up the total of the ship's mass is still headed at high speed toward them.

 

[F. King Daniel]

He flew the Kelvin inside the Narada's tentacles, to strike at the core of the ship. Any evasive action not countered would have led George to crash into one of Narada's limbs and caused far less damage.

 

[Timo]

Not to mention that the Kelvin was falling physically apart. Her flight characteristics must have been constantly changing...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vincent Law]

He flew the Kelvin inside the Narada's tentacles,

Where 9/10 anime girls fear to tread.

to strike at the core of the ship. Any evasive action not countered would have led George to crash into one of Narada's limbs and caused far less damage.

Not to mention that the Kelvin was falling physically apart. Her flight characteristics must have been constantly changing...

If that was the case, then why wasn't he at the helm, where the best controls for making any adjustments were?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Why get steering wheel for a PS3 when the little left thumbstick on the pad works just as well? Besides, we saw him set a load of controls on the helm and nav consoles, which are all of two footsteps away if needed.

 

[David cgc]

If that was the case, then why wasn't he at the helm, where the best controls for making any adjustments were?

Because the Captain sits in the Captain's chair, and he was Captain at that point, which was important in the story, since it was the story of a guy becoming Captain, so they constantly reinforced the idea of Captain-ness, even when it didn't make sense (such as Robau and Pike telling Kirk and Spock, respectively, "You're Captain, now" instead of something more traditional and less permanent-sounding, like "You have the conn").

You may as well ask why everyone had their back to their consoles or was standing next to Jim at the end of Star Treks IV and VI (and, more than that, why there was no helmsman at the end of VI!), like they were posing for a photo. Didn't they have jobs to do? Did someone tell them it was the end of the movie and they should all get a last bit of face-time?

 

[Vincent Law]

Why get steering wheel for a PS3 when the little left thumbstick on the pad works just as well? Besides, we saw him set a load of controls on the helm and nav consoles, which are all of two footsteps away if needed.

Because this isn't supposed to be a video game, it's supposed to be a ship, and the helm controls would provide better controls than whatever abbreviated versions are built into the captain's chair, if there were indeed any controls there. In any case, if having control of the ship at all times is so important to insure this collision happens, then he never should have left the helm once starting on that course.

Because the Captain sits in the Captain's chair,

Or at the helm or anywhere else where he or she might be needed for that matter. I can think of two examples of the captain piloting the ship off the top of my head: Picard in "Booby Trap" and Archer in "Singularity."

You may as well ask why everyone had their back to their consoles or was standing next to Jim at the end of Star Treks IV and VI (and, more than that, why there was no helmsman at the end of VI!), like they were posing for a photo. Didn't they have jobs to do? Did someone tell them it was the end of the movie and they should all get a last bit of face-time?

Does pointing out flaws in other movies somehow make the flaws in the movie you're defending disappear? Or are you under the mistaken impression that I would never point out such flaws in other movies?

 

[Timo]

I don't see why George Kirk would desire to use "the most complete set of controls". He was alone in command of a starship - having to worry about a thousand nuances would be counterproductive to what he was doing. If I were to pilot a missile boat all alone, I wouldn't want to touch the throttles at all, let alone the trim vanes or the oil pressure regulators - I'd have more complete control of the boat if I only had to operate the steering wheel.

The center chair would simply be the most friendly environment for me to work on. If anything went wrong and required attention, I'd simply ignore it, because I'd have no attention to share. After all, everything would be "wrong" from the get-go anyway: any bit of the ship that happened to be working like it should would simply be a welcome bonus.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vincent Law]

I don't see why George Kirk would desire to use "the most complete set of controls". He was alone in command of a starship - having to worry about a thousand nuances would be counterproductive to what he was doing.

That was his entire job at that point. Command of the ship and sitting in the big chair was pointless because the ship's only function at that point was as a shield against the missiles and as a missile itself in order to allow everyone else to get away. If having complete control over the ship didn't matter, then why didn't he just set the controls and try his best to get the hell out of there?

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Cause that wouldn't be a Big Damn Heroic Sacrifice.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Because, dramatically, it was more important to reinforce the idea that Kirk was The Captain Of The Ship by having him sit in the Chair where which the Captain places his self.

Except it still doesn't make any sense. It looks like he's just sitting back and watching right after the whole plot contrivance of the autopilot being down was just established.

He only NEEDED the autopilot to keep the ship performing evasive maneuvers until everyone was off. A collision course can be set pretty easily, but a series of random evasive maneuvers (and covering moves to protect the shuttles) requires multiple course changes or manual thruster input.

Anyway, George specifically tells Winona that his reason for staying on the ship isn't so he can ram the Narada, but so he can draw Narada's fire long enough for the shuttles to escape. I think if he had his choice he would have preferred to run for it and maybe gamble on hooking up with the shuttles at the nearest starbase, but he didn't have his choice, and the only way to keep Nero from pursuing the survivors was to shove the Kelvin down his throat.

Space doesn't have bumps and variances in its surface the way a road does, and starships don't have to worry about the air pressure being a little different in each tire, or the balance in the rims being a little off, or the alignment of the suspension being a little off. It's not even like an ocean or other body of water where currents and wind speed and direction can throw off an otherwise straight course of a boat or a ship. Here the only thing to throw the ship off are the missile impacts, and that depends on how many get through the defenses. There's also the fact that the ship is practically there already when it starts its collision course.

Which, again, assumes that he intended to use the autopilot to plot a collision course. He didn't: the autopilot was for the protection of the shuttles, and its untimely failure means George stays on the bridge until his wife is away.

Does pointing out flaws in other movies somehow make the flaws in the movie you're defending disappear? Or are you under the mistaken impression that I would never point out such flaws in other movies?

You know, I've seen you posting in twelve different threads and I have NEVER seen you draw attention to plot/technical/characterization flaws in any movie OTHER than STXI.

 

[Vincent Law]

He only NEEDED the autopilot to keep the ship performing evasive maneuvers until everyone was off. A collision course can be set pretty easily, but a series of random evasive maneuvers (and covering moves to protect the shuttles) requires multiple course changes or manual thruster input.

Anyway, George specifically tells Winona that his reason for staying on the ship isn't so he can ram the Narada, but so he can draw Narada's fire long enough for the shuttles to escape. I think if he had his choice he would have preferred to run for it and maybe gamble on hooking up with the shuttles at the nearest starbase, but he didn't have his choice, and the only way to keep Nero from pursuing the survivors was to shove the Kelvin down his throat.

]Which, again, assumes that he intended to use the autopilot to plot a collision course. He didn't: the autopilot was for the protection of the shuttles, and its untimely failure means George stays on the bridge until his wife is away.

Which then would go back to it making no sense that he ever left the helm.

You know, I've seen you posting in twelve different threads and I have NEVER seen you draw attention to plot/technical/characterization flaws in any movie OTHER than STXI.

Probably because they've all been discussions about STXI. So again: 1) Does pointing out such flaws in other movies suddenly make the flaws in this one go away? 2) Do you honestly think I've never noticed or complained about flaws in other movies, ever?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

He only NEEDED the autopilot to keep the ship performing evasive maneuvers until everyone was off. A collision course can be set pretty easily, but a series of random evasive maneuvers (and covering moves to protect the shuttles) requires multiple course changes or manual thruster input.

Anyway, George specifically tells Winona that his reason for staying on the ship isn't so he can ram the Narada, but so he can draw Narada's fire long enough for the shuttles to escape. I think if he had his choice he would have preferred to run for it and maybe gamble on hooking up with the shuttles at the nearest starbase, but he didn't have his choice, and the only way to keep Nero from pursuing the survivors was to shove the Kelvin down his throat.

]Which, again, assumes that he intended to use the autopilot to plot a collision course. He didn't: the autopilot was for the protection of the shuttles, and its untimely failure means George stays on the bridge until his wife is away.

Which then would go back to it making no sense that he ever left the helm.

Why? He DIDN'T leave the helm until the ship was already on a collision course; not much steering to do then, now is there?

If there's no autopilot, the ship can't evade and can't screen the shuttles; George is at the controls. When the ship doesn't need to screen them anymore, you can set a specific course and commit the helm to follow it; George sits down.

I mean, I just don't get what you're complaining about here. Except that you hate STXI, but we knew that already.

Probably because they've all been discussions about STXI. So again: 1) Does pointing out such flaws in other movies suddenly make the flaws in this one go away?

No, it makes it exactly as irrelevant as it was in all those other movies you don't feel like talking about because you liked them just fine but would rather complain about STXI because you hated it so much.

 

[publiusr]

The warp drive doesn't produce thrust in the Newtonian sense, it manipulates space by forming a warp field around the ship.

I know that... I am well versed in technobabble. I am also an engineer with much knowings of engines and things nuclear and general "engineering" in general.

Follow my design logic for a moment.

These are older generation warp engines. In order to scale up the NX engines it was necessary to use a brute-force approach. While the NX was able to recycle warp-plasma for the most part... larger ships required more plasma. Technology wasn't up to the task of "recycling" the plasma on this scale yet.

What we see on these ships very simple: It's the exhaust-pipe Uhura spoke of.

When we cycle the engines up to power more plasma is generated and exhausted overboard. The design of the nozzle disperses the plasma as best it can so it DOES NOT impart a Newtonian trust to the ship.

Enterprising captains (heh) discovered that by adjusting the configuration of the exhaust nozzle you could get an additional bit of thrust... and there were even stories circulating about how ships who lost their impulse drives used the "rocket thrust" of the plasma-exhaust to limp to safety.


Later on... a tech generation or two ahead of this one... look at the end-caps on the TOS Enterprise nacelles. A method was developed to recycle and reuse said plasma. This reduced the trail that Starfleet ships left behind and eliminated the toxic "plasma contamination" issues some well-traveled space-ports and starbases were facing.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

My idea about Narada was that originally (and in conflict with the comic prequel), was that Narada had arms made to encircle an asteroid and bring it into its maw for refining. Thus it has to look a bit like a vampire squid (field webbing) so as to eat rubble pile asteroids, not unlike the TTA Gourmet. Borg tech and travel through singularities distorted the form..., which borg tech would have to repair--leading to something hideous and un-romulan--more like the Doomsday Machine. In Ultimate Computer, the impulse deck was damaged on a ship and it had to use warp nacelles in a non-FTL way IIRC.

Missiles were to break up asteroids with very hard neutronium shrapnel warheads. Planetoids hit with the ventral cutting beam.

 

[The Inquisitor]

^ I like the idea you have put forward there, the opening maw for asteroids etc. Makes sense. As much as I love the film and all the ships in it (except the NuPrise dildo nacelles) the problem I have is things going in and out of a singularity. I'm amazed people who dislike the film dont site that more often as it's a glaring error more noticeable than shifting ship dimensions etc.

 

[Timo]

I'm also completely satisfied with a space mining ship that looks completely unlike a space battleship. Drilling platforms here on Earth don't look particularly like frigates, either.

Why is the going in and out of a singularity a problem? Singularities today are hard on physical objects because of gravitic effects, yet Trek has the means to defy gravity - possibly the very idea of going FTL is based on completely sidestepping the gravitic nature of our universe, thus consigning Einstein to the rubbish heap of history. Certainly a black hole's so-called event horizon would transform into a fuzzy "event zone" when the limiting escape velocity no longer is defined as lightspeed, but as the best warp speed the ship's engines can provide!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

Black holes used as magical transport through time and space, and having nothing in common with real-life black holes, is a concept that's been around forever. In Trek, collision with a "black star" sent the Enterprise to 1969 Earth orbit, and later (or earlier, in-universe) V'ger was sent across the galaxy by a black hole. Species 8472 later used artificial singularities to travel between their universe and ours. It's pure fantasy - but it's the sort of fantasy that comes with the territory, like human aliens that speak American English (via unseen translators... honest) and have silly forehead bumps and colourations. At least IMO.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

^ Technically, all wormholes of all type are just black holes that go somewhere. Theoretically, the Bajoran wormhole should have been easily detectable by gravitational effects on the orbits of other planets in the system, but instead they used "elevated levels of neutrino emissions."

I'm finding more and more lately that two of my favorite Trek productions--DS9 and STXI--seem to share most of the same technical gaffes. Perhaps I should stop wondering how they eat and breathe--and other science facts--repeat to myself "It's just a show" and make myself relax.