Narada Tech Specs

[Crazy Eddie]

Its shows nothing of any romulan design lineage...

No effort or at least care for the established look of vessels in the star trek universe-no attempt to glimpse at the romulan design to highlight something of this tragedy...

It's like complaining that a Navy vessel and a BP oil rig don't have a shared design lineage.

But, after all, we do have a Romulan vessel that looks similar:

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x14/aenar_301.jpg
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x14/aenar_448.jpg

I will clarify what I meant -the established two narcelle all romulan vessels have shown to date (bar the Scimitar) and the avian motif

Why would you expect that from a mining vessel? Federation cargo ships don't look anything like their Starfleet counterparts; the Xhosa doesn't even have an NCC registry.

BTW was the drone deliberatly designed not to be identifed as Romulan in origin that sort of undoes the whole sneaky lets get the allies killing each other purpose?

No, because the drone was designed never to be SEEN without its camouflage active. It is explicitly referred to as a redesign of an existing warbird design, though.

Timo I agree and have long held that the vessel was designed by the military for shizon for another devious Romulan reason, The Scimitar as it was meant to be used for the sole pupose of reaching earth for a knockout blow for the federation

Again, no, because it was designed never to be SEEN while launching an attack. Scimitar could fire while still under cloak, and as a doomsday weapon, would have simply sidled up into Earth orbit, fired off its thalaron weapon and then slunk away as the entire population turned to dust. By the time anyone realized the Romulans were involved it would have been too late anyway.

OTOH, it occurs to me that if you want to complain about villains with incoherent motives, you'd have to pick Nero over Shinzon every time. Nero has the benefit of being plausibly unhinged the way terrorists can be expected to be; Shinzon is just a run-of-the-mill Bond villain with a technobabble superweapon and an irresistible urge to monolog his master plan to the only person in the room who could possibly stop him.

 

[Timo]

Also, Nero has had a quarter of a century to cultivate his insane rage. Shinzon has been raging aimlessly for that length of time, and only recently has been handed the keys to his freedom by his Romulan allies, plus some pointers as to where to aim the anger. Nero is well set in his ways; Shinzon is still trying to justify his course of action to himself.

Nero is the free and wild loose cannon who aspires to be a military commander. Shinzon is the military commander who aspires to be free and wild. It's not that unexpected that Shinzon would go a bit overboard and head for the abyss that is Bond villainy...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Salvek]

It's like complaining that a Navy vessel and a BP oil rig don't have a shared design lineage.

But, after all, we do have a Romulan vessel that looks similar:

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x14/aenar_301.jpg
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x14/aenar_448.jpg

I will clarify what I meant -the established two narcelle all romulan vessels have shown to date (bar the Scimitar) and the avian motif

Why would you expect that from a mining vessel? Federation cargo ships don't look anything like their Starfleet counterparts; the Xhosa doesn't even have an NCC registry.

Hi Timo

Im Just clarifiying what I meant by a Romulan look or uniformity to their ship design Im not saying it as an absolute maxim that all romulan vessels must have.

The Narada has more in common in looks with the Scimitar which is again a dramatic departure from Romulan vessel design as established.

I know the drone was never meant to be seen or the scimitar I just was postulating that if the scimitar was revealed its distinntive look could allow the romulans to distance themselves from it just a play on the devious or doublethink nature they display

In the end I guess I just felt Proberts Dideridex Warbird never got a proper showing on the big screen I liked the look that TNG established for the romulan starships.

I absolutely agree about Nero and Shinzons motives as well

 

[Timo]

Is the Scimitar really a departure? She looks pretty much the same as the Klingon Bird of Prey (either ENT or TNG), with the head, neck and anhedral wings.

And if we buy into the theory that this design started from an alliance between the Klingon and Romulan empires...



Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

Yeah it's not that different at all. Give it a nice green hull, and it looks immediately recognisable as a Romulan ship. The porcupine spine things are something to do with the [tech] weapon - I remember the little one that destroyed the Senate had similar spiky accessories.

 

[Salvek]

Hi Newtype Alpha

Ummm Ok I heard the number 47 "warbirds" in the movie

Not from Uhura. Her exact words were "A Klingon Armada was destroyed... 47 ships."

How do you know the type of vessels that were there?

I don't. And neither does Uhura. More importantly, neither does Kirk, the only one who actually says "47 warbirds."

Were not the d7s in the kobiyashi maru simulation referred to as warbirds? so Kirk convinces to Pike the gravity of the situation on something he does not know-and Pike acts on it? If no one knew what the hell they were taliking about why was anyone saying this?

Why not? A bunch of pissed off Muslim peasants can grab some AK-47s and RPGs and form an army; why can't a bunch of pissed off Romulans strap some explosive charges to a communications drone? Especially since they're firing them at ships that, in their time, would probably be museum pieces?

Thats what those missiles were commuincations drones with explosives?

Those D7 hulls that make up the Klingon "Warbird" have been in use for centuries-granted they are old by trek terms they are rugged hulls still in use by the dominion war -and 47 of them all attacking should have had a chance since as you point the narada has no deflectors -Disruptors still do damage even if 150 years old

Then I don't know WHAT the hell you're complaining about. You act like the only thing that can attack a capital ship is another capital ship... just because. THAT hasn't been the case since Pearl Harbor, and it turns out you don't even need military hardware to pull off a sneak attack; a bunch of psychos in a rowboat packed with explosives nearly sank the USS Cole, without having any access to a cap ship. There are countries in the world today whose navies lack "capital" ships of any kind, and depend on swarm tactics using small speedboats armed with torpedoes or suicide bombs.

Yea I missed what happened here with this reply as well -safe to say I agree with you in what you point out.

Does the Narada have starship-grade deflectors? Does it have disruptor cannons? Does it have a cloaking device, sophisticated sensors, advanced tracking systems, advanced transporters? No. What does it have? Lots and lots of really powerful self-propelled bombs. A 24th century scoutship would probably kick its ass.

I have no idea since the Narada is not explanied, to even have a point reference besides Nero saying it a mining vessel -I guess any ship could kick its ass its all conjecture


Yes. Why not? This aint dungeons and dragons, you get don't an automatic +6 to defend just because you're a warship.

Wow sorry to get you riled up enough to type this.

Which changes what, exactly?

No, it's a mining vessel being run by a full-time terrorist who was something of a psychopath even in his own century.

It's self-evident from the movie that Nero's ship was heavily armed BEFORE it traveled into the past. That makes him a heavily armed civilian with a bad attitude and a tendency to attack Federation ships without warning or provocation; in other words, a terrorist.

Abrams sheds light on what KIND of terrorist, but it doesn't take alot of digging to see that the guy is basically out of his mind.

Anyway, you want to know the WHY of things you have to go to background materials anyway. Nobody who didn't watch "Unification I and II" would have any idea why Spock was talking to the Romulans in the 24th century.

Agreed.

It's not written AT ALL. It's background material that isn't presented in the film, both for the sake of brevity and the sake of relevance. We do not need to know every detail about Nero's background or motives, because ultimately, the story isn't about him, it's about Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Uhura.

Well There was lot of filler in the movie that did not advance the story -they could utilised to expand on the protaginist who is also driving the story along.

And I think a well developed "opponent" is very relevant
Since we have a chance at a 3 dimensional opponent who has a lot going on -his motivations could be deeper than a cliche bad guy -and the fact the Romulans have been a part of the franchise since the start i would hope we could get some more detail there.

Drop Scotty stuck in the water tube sequence-kirk and the random monsters and a host of other fx fillers and put in some depth for the otherwise one dimensional "bad guys"

You want high level detail and exposition? Read the novels. Movies--especially when it comes to science fiction--ALWAYS omit background material for the sake of brevity.

Or watch the decent Trek Movies that managed to be entertaining and have depth to the villian.

The problem is I fully accept what is on screen

No you don't. You just finished a big long incoherent rant COMPLAINING about what was on screen. The problem as I said, is that you don't LIKE what was on-screen, and you don't want to. Insisting that anything that could possibly make it likeable is supposed to be on screen is another excuse to go on hating it.

I had an issue what was on screen and I have said I do not hate the movie many times-and this gets ignored -i dislike parts of the movie. The Narada was one aspect I had issue with. The fact i want to discuss it is more, Is a wish i could enjoy the movie as a whole but i had issue with one of the major elements of the story.

What I did not like was the portrayal of the Romulans or the Narada

You dislike the portrayal of something you otherwise know nothing about and have never seen portrayed ever before?

What? I have issue with Nero and the Narada and by extenstion aspects of the red matter time travel plot.
This is part of the story.

So since I have never seen the narada design before and its not explained IMO and not appeared in any other movie im not allowed to have an issue with it in context of the movie its in?

Fail logic is fail

You got that right



.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Were not the d7s in the kobiyashi maru simulation referred to as warbirds? so Kirk convinces to Pike the gravity of the situation on something he does not know-and Pike acts on it?

Basically, yes. Kirk is making an assumption here based on what he (and let's face it, everyone else in Starfleet) thinks they know about the Narada's capabilities. We can assume that he got the "one ship, one MASSIVE ship" from Uhura on the way to the bridge, but less likely he would have stopped to make sure the transmission specified exactly what kinds of Klingon ships were destroyed. It's extremely unlikely Uhura would even know that; even the Klingons would require a certain amount of time to take a tally in the aftermath.

If no one knew what the hell they were taliking about why was anyone saying this?

Because he THOUGHT he was right. And where it mattered, he WAS.

Thats what those missiles were commuincations drones with explosives?

Possibly. That or the Romulan equivalent of the Kassam: a basement-made simple booster with a rudimentary guidance system and as many explosives as you can squeeze into it. When you consider that commercially available explosives can pack quite a wallop in the 24th century (e.g. Tahna los' bilitrium bomb) then an improvised torpedo with a powerful warhead wouldn't be all that hard to rig.

I have no idea since the Narada is not explanied, to even have a point reference besides Nero saying it a mining vessel -I guess any ship could kick its ass its all conjecture

I'm not conjecturing. Narada's shields are not overly impressive even under ideal circumstances; just the collision of the Jellyfish alone knocks out their shields at the end of the movie.

Much more to consider is the fact that Narada's attack on the Kelvin and her shuttles began to thin out in the seconds before George put the ship on a collision course. This is assumed to be plot contrivance, but it's entirely possible that Kelvin's counterattack had ALREADY disabled the Narada and George, having lost sensors, shields, weapons and half the bridge on fire around him, had no way of knowing this. It wouldn't really change the nature of his sacrifice (since there's really NO way to know whether or not the Narada has some other nasty surprises for the survivors) but the assumption that the Narada simply squashed the Kelvin in a one-sided firefight may not be warranted; like Kirk vs. Kruge, they may have simply fought each other to a stalemate.

Well There was lot of filler in the movie that did not advance the story -they could utilised to expand on the protaginist who is also driving the story along.

I'm reasonably sure that if Abrams had been given enough run time he would have included it. The production team had alot of very ambitious goals on this one and they ended up having to make alot of sacrifices in the end. Not surprisingly most of what was sacrificed involved Nero.

And I think a well developed "opponent" is very relevant

Maybe, but NOT at the expense of the development of the protagonists. "Bad guy out of fucking nowhere" is tolerable in ways that "shallow one-dimensional good guy" is not.

Or watch the decent Trek Movies that managed to be entertaining and have depth to the villian.

By which you mean Wrath of Khan. None of the others did.

What? I have issue with Nero and the Narada and by extenstion aspects of the red matter time travel plot.

This is part of the story.

And you want them to be portrayed a different way... why? We've never seen red matter before, we've never seen the Narada, we've never seen Nero or the band of Romulans that they belong to. For all we know their portrayal in this film is spot-on, perfectly typical things and people portrayed in an atypical situation. If anything it defies your expectations of what a Romulan civilian on a mining vessel should look like... and what exactly were those expectations based on?

 

[Tomalak]

By which you mean Wrath of Khan. None of the others did.

Well, TMP and TVH don't really have villains, and I'd say Chang is pretty effective. Khan didn't really have much "depth", he was just a madman hell-bent on revenge on someone he wrongly blamed for the death of his wife.

Or is that Nero I'm talking about?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Chang was VERY effective--a Klingon lunatic spouting Shakespear in the middle of a battle... somehow it works--but not exactly deep.

 

[Timo]

Chang was also cute in being a mirror to Kirk: a cold warrior trying to cope with a new reality. He came with his own Vulcan sidekick, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

And he could quote Shakespeare with the best of them.

 

[publiusr]

Its shows nothing of any romulan design lineage...

No effort or at least care for the established look of vessels in the star trek universe-no attempt to glimpse at the romulan design to highlight something of this tragedy...

It's like complaining that a Navy vessel and a BP oil rig don't have a shared design lineage.

But, after all, we do have a Romulan vessel that looks similar:

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x14/aenar_301.jpg
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x14/aenar_448.jpg

I explain that to myself saying that Narada's last wormhole visit left debris at the other end that created the NX-01 archer timeline. This was harvested and explains why there is no Daedalus, and why Romulans became more advanced with that. Kelvin was thus larger than TOS Saladan type ships, etc.

 

[publiusr]

Is the Scimitar really a departure? She looks pretty much the same as the Klingon Bird of Prey (either ENT or TNG), with the head, neck and anhedral wings.

And if we buy into the theory that this design started from an alliance between the Klingon and Romulan empires...



Timo Saloniemi

I'm thinking it was captured Dominion tech that allowed the Remans to gain an advantage.

 

[Timo]

What advantage did they gain, though? Apparently, they didn't succeed in the slave rebellion through using their superior thalaron weapon or threat thereof, because the Romulan Senate in the beginning of the movie is wholly unaware of the existence of this weapon, yet the slave rebellion has already succeeded and Shinzon is attempting negotiations with the Senate as a sovereign player.

Clearly, thalaron tech was the secret of some small subsection of the broader Romulan society, a secret kept from that broader society. Which subsection, though, remains unclear. The Remans? A small Romulan cabal wishing to gain power through giving Shinzon and his Remans some of it? The Romulan military in its entirety doing the same thing? The Tal'Shiar?

Shinzon speaks of building the Scimitar in a secret base. Secret from whom? Apparently, from the Romulan Senate at least. But not necessarily from the Romulan military. Shinzon might well be speaking of building a ship for them, then surprisingly being allowed to use it himself.

As to where the thalaron tech came from - well, our Starfleet heroes seem to recognize it immediately, even having their own name for it. Might be relatively general knowledge in theory, even if the practice was only mastered by the Romulans.

Timo Saloniemi