Narada Tech Specs

[Crazy Eddie]

Looks like flame to me. Maybe they shouldn't have gone so overboard on the lens flare after all, then we could actually see what was going on better.

I can see what was going on just fine. The concave dome on the back of the engine suddenly glows a bit brighter and Kelvin surges forward and begins a very slow starboard yaw (it leaves a chunk of the saucer behind as it goes). The lens flare effect does NOT yaw, and only lasts a couple of seconds as the ship pulls away from the camera.

Of course you still seem to be ignoring that whole impulse vs. warp engine matter...

Actually I directly addressed that matter several days ago, to which you responded "Well it still looked like a rocket engine," only to have you come back into this thread and say "You're ignoring the whole issue!"

Not for the first time, I find myself wondering if you're even READING my posts.

You're also ignoring all the other examples, like the "Jellyfish."

And other people have already covered the Jellyfish: the ship has an impulse engine and a warp engine. Guess which one leaves a trail?

 

[Vincent Law]

I guess it was the will of the force that these ships warp off at impulse then.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I guess it was the will of the force that these ships warp off at impulse then.

No. In Star Trek, the space ships use WARP engines to reach very high speeds.

 

[T'Girl]

The warp drive doesn't produce thrust in the Newtonian sense, it manipulates space by forming a warp field around the ship. .

But the warp engines are consistently shown to move the ship through normal space too, begin with TMP. When the warp drive is engaged the ship doesn't simply disappear into subspace (which maybe it should), but instead and consistently moves forward rapidly toward the point where it enters subspace with the characteristic flash. The forward motion following the warp engine engagement would seem to cover at least hundreds miles, in the case of the NX-01 perhaps several hundreds of miles.

Deprived of the use of the impulse engines, George Kirk could have employed this forward motion to collide with the Narada. Even if the ships warp engine was too damage too achieve warp speed and the full speed burst we've seen in the past, it could still move the ship..

all George Kirk did was set a course and engage the ship on it, then sit back in the big chair and watch the ship move in a straight line toward the other ship until it collided.

The impression that I obtained from that scene isn't of George Kirk "sitting back," but instead actively guiding the ships course on a second by second basis.

And the ship was hardly moving "straight."

same computer which was so damaged ... [snip] ... was still able to calculate exactly when the collision would take place, and control all the little point defense phasers

The computer wasn't completely off line, it had simply lost the auto pilot program. And the weapons computer and the navigational computer were likely separate systems

You really can't tell the difference between a rocket engine and a glow? Have you ever waved a torch around in a dark room? Did that create "flames" too?

If by torch you mean something like a ...

I believe he meant "torch" as in a British flashlight.

burn matter and antimatter and dump the resulting exhaust overboard like that.

We've seen other Starfleet ships (and non-Starfleet) that have what is labeled as "purge vents" (Enterprise Refit in her pylons) or "emergency plasma flush vents" (in the case of the Enterprise Dee on top of her nacelles) plasma apparently referring to warp plasma from the reactor. If ejected from the ship under pressure, this would provide propulsion.

Although, with respect AriesIV , I believe the soft gentle glow we saw on the end cap was the warp engine activating as I mentioned up post.

 

[Vance]

But the warp engines are consistently shown to move the ship through normal space too, begin with TMP. When the warp drive is engaged the ship doesn't simply disappear into subspace (which maybe it should),

Subspace is not hyperspace or another dimension. (At least it's not supposed to be, some writers get this wrong a lot.) Subspace is simply an area of space that has been warped when compared to space outside of it. (The "subspace bubble").

You get a relativity issue with this, where subspace now encompasses more .. ahem.. space than it normally would without the warping. Hence, a ship that may be moving at a relativistic velocity of .25c within the subspace field is now, thanks to warping, moving a 'real' 512c.

This is a 'cheat' of newtonian physics, basically, based on the effects believed to occur around black-holes and other sites of intense gravity. Light appears to speed up because space itself is warped around it. Trek's answer is to use energy distortion to mimic this effect, but doing so would require an insane amount of energy - hence the M/AM engines.

Some further posit that this warping effect could 'space-jet' the ship along as well, using the compression of space up front as a 'pulling' effect to the subspace bubble, since the whole thing is attempting to normalize. This isn't explained in Trek much, however, and there are those who require that SOME sort of newtonian thrust is required for even warp travel.

 

[T'Girl]

Subspace is not hyperspace or another dimension.

I believe Laforge, Torres, O'Brien and other have all referred to the "realm" that ships move through while at warp speed (moving FTL) as subspace.

 

[Vance]

Subspace is not hyperspace or another dimension.

I believe Laforge, Torres, O'Brien and other have all referred to the "realm" that ships move through while at warp speed (moving FTL) as subspace.

But they're gone, child. They're all gone. Banished by their ratings! Oh, I know where they're going eventually, but for now... DVD.

And we're back. The incredibly intelligent and pompous people who still are unaccountably debating Star Trek on the internet.

You may have taken bits and pieces of dialog from half-assed scripts that you found amusing and strung them together to remotely intelligent on the means of canon but I've got 40 years of snark, flame-wars, and fan-publications standing behind me.

You've been online for awhile and think you've come up with some good conclusions on the nature of subspace. But I couldn't give a tribble's piss about your internet-assembled treknology!

We saw you, sitting there at your desk typing on the forums and we all thought you were a Warsie.

So, back! Back to your happy-flighting TNG-style writing and notebooks, you Klingon-ridged Ferengi-eared daughter of a Betazed! BACK!

(For humor impaired: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRujuE-GIY4 )

 

[Vance]

Subspace is not hyperspace or another dimension.

I believe Laforge, Torres, O'Brien and other have all referred to the "realm" that ships move through while at warp speed (moving FTL) as subspace.

Okay, more seriously, the writing of certain episodes is what I meant about them getting it 'wrong' as the series progressed. Subspace was not supposed to be another dimension any more than black holes had surfaces... And, indeed, the writers often ignored their own rules quite often, enough that we're still debating what the hell they supposedly actually meant four decades later.

 

[Saquist]

Subspace is not hyperspace or another dimension.

I believe Laforge, Torres, O'Brien and other have all referred to the "realm" that ships move through while at warp speed (moving FTL) as subspace.

That is correct.
Commander Riker was clearly carried into what LaForge described as a lower subspace dimension that he accidentally accessed.

 

[Vance]

That is correct.
Commander Riker was clearly carried into what LaForge described as a lower subspace dimension that he accidentally accessed.

Well, keep in mind that you're talking about the same writers who created a new 'dimension' completely with magical alien life, to be in while you're thrown into a transporter beam... and also talked about the 'strange unheard of phenomenon of non-ogranic life'... to DATA.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

That is correct.
Commander Riker was clearly carried into what LaForge described as a lower subspace dimension that he accidentally accessed.

Well, keep in mind that you're talking about the same writers who created a new 'dimension' completely with magical alien life, to be in while you're thrown into a transporter beam... and also talked about the 'strange unheard of phenomenon of non-ogranic life'... to DATA.

Well, there's also the "Houdinis" in The Seirge of AR-558, Dominion mines that "hide in subspace" and appear at random and arm themselves.

I agree with you, of course, that subspace isn't some sort of hyperspace realm and starships don't actually slip into it like on Babylon 5 or something. But if you can hide a physical object like a bomb in a subspace envelope such that nobody can see or interact with it until it wants to, you can probably do all kinds of other weird shit with it if you had a mind to. Causing your ship to suddenly move forward at incredible speed would seem to be a fairly mundane process.

 

[Vance]

I agree with you, of course, that subspace isn't some sort of hyperspace realm and starships don't actually slip into it like on Babylon 5 or something. But if you can hide a physical object like a bomb in a subspace envelope such that nobody can see or interact with it until it wants to, you can probably do all kinds of other weird shit with it if you had a mind to. Causing your ship to suddenly move forward at incredible speed would seem to be a fairly mundane process.

I'm not discounting the 'jet' theory at all, just that it's not consistent or evidenced anywhere enough to say 'Eureka! This is my answer!". I should make a decision for Jaynz soon, though. It would solve SOME issues, but would make that occasional reverse warping a bitch to reconcile.

As for the other stuff, DS9 had a LOT of 'a wizard did it' moments, and it's a bit tough to take too seriously when you look at things. I think that subspace fields may interfere with sensor scans, but it's more that you're distorting things trying to look at you rather than you going somewhere else.

 

[T'Girl]

what I meant about them getting it 'wrong'

Now be honest with us all, you're just making shit up at this point, yes?

Regardless Vance, begone with your anti-technobabble prattle.

 

[Vance]

Now be honest with us all, you're just making shit up at this point, yes?

Yes, I'm taking the piss out. Andrew and Rick used to show me around the real ships a few years ago. Really, no one here has any idea. I'm just here to spread disinformation because some prat on the internet may just get it right.

And then where would we all be?

 

[Vincent Law]

But the warp engines are consistently shown to move the ship through normal space too, begin with TMP. When the warp drive is engaged the ship doesn't simply disappear into subspace (which maybe it should), but instead and consistently moves forward rapidly toward the point where it enters subspace with the characteristic flash. The forward motion following the warp engine engagement would seem to cover at least hundreds miles, in the case of the NX-01 perhaps several hundreds of miles.

As with TOS, the specifics of all that hadn't exactly been decided on yet. In TOS there is no VFX for going to warp or even being at warp, and in TMP they decided to make one, which wasn;t even used for the entirety of the movies. Of course it could also be argued that the ship was under impulse power until the transition to the new VFX they made for going to warp, especially since shortly after this the ship was pulled into a wormhole formed by its improperly balanced warp drive.

Deprived of the use of the impulse engines, George Kirk could have employed this forward motion to collide with the Narada. Even if the ships warp engine was too damage too achieve warp speed and the full speed burst we've seen in the past, it could still move the ship..

Putting the rocket burst aside, were the impulse engines even mentioned as being down.

The impression that I obtained from that scene isn't of George Kirk "sitting back," but instead actively guiding the ships course on a second by second basis.

Which makes no sense. Yes, I know there are supposed to be controls built into the captains chair to enable that, at least by the TNG era, but wouldn't it make a lot more sense to control the ship from the helm, with its full set of controls, since this was supposed to be so important?

And the ship was hardly moving "straight."

Looked like a fairly straight line to me.

The computer wasn't completely off line, it had simply lost the auto pilot program. And the weapons computer and the navigational computer were likely separate systems

How convenient and yet laughable in how simple something like an autopilot would be for such a high-tech computer. Why would this need a separate computer? All the ship had to do was point in a direction and keep going in a straight line.

 

[AriesIV]

If we allowed the fans to write the stories it would go like this:

Lone Federation starship encounters something new and never-before-seen. Using fail-proof ubertechnology they quickly figure out what it is. When the Narada comes through the Federation starship uses it's fail-proof ubertechnology to quickly gain the upper hand and totally dominate it's opponent. The captain yawns tells the crew to set a course for their next victim... er... destination and goes below deck to furiously masturbate over the ship's technical specs... which were designed by a fanboy who may or may not be a social outcast living in a dark room.


EDIT: Holy shit I got J.J. on the phone he wants to buy my script!

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I suggest you take a look at the Fan Fiction area of the Trekbbs and re-evalute your opinion.

 

[AriesIV]

I suggest you take a look at the Fan Fiction area of the Trekbbs and re-evalute your opinion.

I was being silly. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[David cgc]

Which makes no sense. Yes, I know there are supposed to be controls built into the captains chair to enable that, at least by the TNG era, but wouldn't it make a lot more sense to control the ship from the helm, with its full set of controls, since this was supposed to be so important?

Because, dramatically, it was more important to reinforce the idea that Kirk was The Captain Of The Ship by having him sit in the Chair where which the Captain places his self.

The computer wasn't completely off line, it had simply lost the auto pilot program. And the weapons computer and the navigational computer were likely separate systems

How convenient and yet laughable in how simple something like an autopilot would be for such a high-tech computer. Why would this need a separate computer? All the ship had to do was point in a direction and keep going in a straight line.

Dare you to take your hands off the wheel next time you're on the freeway and see how simple it is to keep going in a straight line for any significant distance traveling at high speed.

 

[Vance]

Dare you to take your hands off the wheel next time you're on the freeway and see how simple it is to keep going in a straight line for any significant distance traveling at high speed.

Pretty damn easy if I have a TRS-80 MC-10 rigged up to do it, actually. "Keep the nav going this way" isn't exactly all that taxing on today's machines, much less a machine that's supposedly about 1000 times more powerful than a human brain.

You don't need a separate computer.. the Captain's iPod could manage it. There's an App for that.