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Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 4x05 - "Level-Five Transporter Accident"

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If something can be much more directly and simply parsed as a misfire in the writers' room, it's probably worth stopping to consider that.

As I often remind people: every Star Trek episode speaks to someone out there. Many times, the episode you merely tolerate can be someone else's first-ever episode, or absolute favourite episode.

For the first year I was a part of fandom, I was really the only person I know who liked TMP. I started watching TOS and TAS, but still preferred TMP. Over the years I found more fans who were on my wavelength, and the movie did tend to get reevaluated and appreciated anew over the decades.

Fans do seem very keen to blame the writers' room these days. Some people are quick to shout "Lazy writing!", but anyone who's ever done some serious writing knows that there's not much laziness involved, unless you never get to the end, of course. :)

I think it's more like the "Dallas ending"...

Poor Pam Ewing not only dreamt a whole season of "Dallas", she also dreamed a season of "Knot's Landing" as well.

And there was some more weirdness. Didn't Miss Ellie get remarried in that dream season, but was still married after Pam woke up? IIRC, "Knot's Landing" never addressed Bobby's return. They just never mentioned him again.
 
Well, being nice didn't work. I just got to the thread (real life and then health interfered) and I've now thrown two warnings.

I don't like warning people. But if you keep getting personal and especially after I come in and say not to do so, don't be surprised if you start seeing warnings going forward.

It's a TV show. Treat it as such. No fighting. There's enough of that in real life these days. Don't add to it. Besides, there is plenty of room for differing opinions in here.

Or keep getting warned. No skin off of my teeth.
 
Fans do seem very keen to blame the writers' room these days. Some people are quick to shout "Lazy writing!", but anyone who's ever done some serious writing knows that there's not much laziness involved, unless you never get to the end, of course. :)
Yeah. I'm there with you, that's come to be a pet peeve. I try not to talk about "the writing" unless I really mean something that would have originated in the writers' room and that they would actually have some control over. I repent of it if I've slipped up.
 
The bigger issue with the “it was all a dream” ending is the circumstances T’Pring describes don’t exactly make sense for how we find Spock.

T’Pring states Spock was injured in some sort of shuttle accident during the experiment and been passed out since. If he was injured in the accident, why isn’t he waking up in sick bay? Not exactly the best standard of medical care to take someone knocked unconscious to their quarters to “sleep it off” with only their ex-girlfriend to monitor them.
 
The Dallas shower scene / dream year was I believe just what they came up with to get Patrick Duffy back in the show after they killed him off, and was never planned or intended at any point. And yeah, it was a huge mess of continuity, and caused the spinoff Knots Landing to basically divorce itself from its parent show.

It's kinda fascinating how people can dream completely differently from each other. Like for me, my dreams are fuzzy 240p low quality videos with no sense of touch, smell, heat/cold, whereas my mother dreams in 4k 60fps full sensory mode and cannot tell her dreams apart from reality when examining them after waking up save for the fact that she has perfect vision while dreaming but has very poor vision IRL. And I always only dream from my own POV, but I see people here saying they dream in 3rd person and dream scenes they aren't present for.

Dreams are bloody weird, and I kinda wonder why they are so varied for people!
 
As I often remind people: every Star Trek episode speaks to someone out there. Many times, the episode you merely tolerate can be someone else's first-ever episode, or absolute favourite episode.

For the first year I was a part of fandom, I was really the only person I know who liked TMP. I started watching TOS and TAS, but still preferred TMP. Over the years I found more fans who were on my wavelength, and the movie did tend to get reevaluated and appreciated anew over the decades.

Fans do seem very keen to blame the writers' room these days. Some people are quick to shout "Lazy writing!", but anyone who's ever done some serious writing knows that there's not much laziness involved, unless you never get to the end, of course. :)



Poor Pam Ewing not only dreamt a whole season of "Dallas", she also dreamed a season of "Knot's Landing" as well.

And there was some more weirdness. Didn't Miss Ellie get remarried in that dream season, but was still married after Pam woke up? IIRC, "Knot's Landing" never addressed Bobby's return. They just never mentioned him again.
Dallas fan here. Miss Ellie remarried long before the dream season. What's interesting is that the dream season was the last for Donna Reed in that role as they brought Barbara Bell Geddes back for when Pam woke up.

From my observation, TMP got more popular after Robert Wise created his directors cut. Even my father, who NEVER liked that movie, enjoyed it after I bought him the DVD box set which had that version. Im glad people enjoy it now, but Ive never liked it regardless of the version. The pacing is too slow and too many scenes are drawn out far longer than they should be. But at least it has an audience now and Im glad Robert Wise got a chance to make his cut before he passed.
 
Somebody made a very perceptive observation on FB the other day. Namely, that just as TOS's writers were inspired by the pop culture they grew up with (westerns, war movies, Horatio Hornblower, Forbidden Planet, etc), today's Trek writers are influenced by the pop culture they grew up with, including self-aware, genre-bending stuff like Buffy, Farscape, X-Files, etc.

Which makes perfect sense. Star Trek does not exist in a bubble (or on a pedestal) outside the rest of pop culture. It always reflects the times in which it is produced, and the generation producing it.

Note that that this is very much not a value judgement. Being inspired by Wagon Train is not inherently better than being inspired by Buffy.

It just helps to explain why a Trek show written in 2026, by folks who came of age in the nineties, doesn't feel exactly like a show written in the 1960s, by folks who grew up watching Humphrey Bogart and John Wayne at the picture show.


(Forgive me for not crediting the original poster. It was a random post somewhere on Facebook.)

What it comes down to, I guess, is that, ignorant/uncaring of why Star Trek is the way it is, people want new Star Trek to be inspired by earlier Star Trek, not Star Trek inspired by what has come after it.
 
Who knows, this whole franchise may one day head for a Tommy Westphall-style ending. Won't be the craziest thing that it's attempted in six decades of existence.
Fuck it. I want this ending to happen just to watch a certain segment of the fan base to collectively lose their godsdamn minds. It would be glorious. :lol:
 
Bang up job there, DSC producers. Sigh.

So much of early Discovery just made it seem like no one was in charge. Like, the makeup department, VFX, etc. were just coming up with shit on the fly.

A good example of this is the Season 1 episode Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum. The original plan for the Pahvans was apparently they would be made up humanoids, who wouldn't have lines, but would communicate with Burnham and Saru via sign language. But for some reason, the makeup wasn't working, so they decided they'd just use VFX to make them in post. For some reason (likely to save money), the VFX artists decided to make them little blue glowy sprites (just like the spores). But this created logic issues, like how did blue glowy sparkles build a yurt, or a communications tower?
 
If it were all just a dream Spock was also dreaming about being a disembodied camera and being in two in places at once which is impressive.
It's not that impressive. I've done that in my dreams on many occasions. I've also shifted and inhabited multiple viewpoint characters in the same dream.

In my dreams, storylines will shift and meander, change tracks, cycle back around to pick up the plotline of an dream earlier in the night's sequence.

My brother, who cannot remember his dreams, once observed that my subconscious must be a scary place. In my dreams, there is frequently a sense of wrongness and an air of mounting paranoia and oppression. Sometimes they have their whimsical moments, like my Summer 1983 "Star Wars" dream in which followed our heroes during a sequence set during ANH where everyone is running around the corridors of the Death Star evading stormtroopers and our heroes try to conceal themselves among off-duty personnel on the decks containing what can only be described as the Death Star's Imperial Shopping Mall.

(My brother also says that he is very glad that he cannot remember his dreams because we have very similar thought processes and after hearing me recount various dreams I've had over the years, he wouldn't want to remember experiencing them himself.)

I remember certain dreams for years afterwards, some for decades. I have dreamt in a mixture of live action and animation. When I was around five, I had a dream set in an animated fairytale world in which the early seventies cartoon Burger King mascot and I had to flee a scary monster up a circular tower staircase, waking up when we opened a door and stepped out into open air to fall to our doom.

Dream logic does not follow hard and fast rules regarding narrative structure. Dream logic can frequently contradict itself within the same dream. In my dreams, something that was patently impossible a short time earlier will suddenly become possible with no internal explanation, and vice versa. My dreams will also frequently throw up arbitrary roadblocks toward completing the simplest of desired actions. This morning, for example, I had a very mundane dream about having to repair my newly installed furnace. The repair process bore no relation to anything it would take to repair said furnace. I had to wait for some chemical reaction within a hissing white plastic part to settle. As that happened, some bizarre goo appeared within said part that turned the plastic a dingy rusty color. Upon bringing the part, to the repairman, I dropped it, spilling the goo. I had to painstakingly gather the goo and scoop it back into the part. We get the damned thing installed and it's time to pay, but first I have to find the checkbook, get into an argument with the wife while locating said checkbook, find it, then write the check. In the dream, I had been quoted a price of "thirty-nine, fifteen and eleven cents." So, I started to write the check for $3915.11, but no, I was being charged "thirty nine thousand, fifteen dollars and eleven cents" and I didn't have money in the account to cover the check. Oops.

Again, by the standards of my usual dreams, that is a mundane one with nowhere near the usual amount of Kafkaesque touches. I wish, though, that I could remember well enough to explain to others the specific scenario of the dream last month in which I noticed within the dream itself that I was switching between viewpoint characters.
 
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What slander? Watch them on TOS - They're ALL Dicks.
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don't listen to them, Mestral. Everyone likes you.
 
Go back and watch "Amok Time." The Vulcans have been shady AF since we first met them.

The Vulcans reputation is built a lot around how honorable Spock is. Kind of funny it's sort of the same with Worf and the Klingons. Spock and Worf are basically the best examples of what those cultures have to offer. Spock was more logical than most other Vulcans. Worf had more honor than most other Klingons.
 
The Vulcans reputation is built a lot around how honorable Spock is. Kind of funny it's sort of the same with Worf and the Klingons. Spock and Worf basically the best examples of what those cultures have to offer. Spock was more logical than most other Vulcans. Worf had more honor than most other Klingons.

They bought into the televangelist view of their respective cultures.
 
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