"Let's just pop back for a field trip."
The Romulans' intention is to reach the space creature before the Enterprise. It is implied that you need to be relatively close in order to make contact, in he vicinity of an unstable star at least. That would be impossible with blinded sensors unless the creature's position could be predicted, but writers can avoid such problems.
Besides, the Romulans' plan B is killing the creature, so blinding the Enterprise would also make sure they could not stop them.
Another problem is Starfleet seemingly losing all records of the incident by the time "Q Who" happens. Like the ENT Ferengi (awful ep.), they do not state their name, and the writers thought they could get away with it.
Actually, that does remind me of another ‘bug’… how easily the TNG crew made it back to the 24th century at the end of ST:FC.
Up until that point in the movies at least, it was a big feat to time travel, complete with odd visions of heads and ponds/lily pads.But FC reduces it to a little warp streak in the sky and a hand wave.
Cheers,
-CM-
The film says the E-E is the most advanced S. ship at that time, plus considering earlier time travel capabilities, I think it makes sense they can copy the vortex method from the Borg.
...or cause some. The Borg could easily prevent the events of "Endgame"; everyone with time machines needs to be stupid.
I have to admit that you are right about Chattaway's score. Thank you for correcting me! It's the only good thing about the episode.
Is it, though? Before the impostor assaulted her, he was unguarded like Whole Kirk usually is and showed that he found her attractive. He acted on his feelings for her. Spock is indeed correct that Rand would find those qualities, at the very least, interesting. I think you're reading far too much into it.
See my reply to Bajorassian above. You're reading it with a post-modern, "everything from the past is filled with racism and bigotry and misogyny," when, in fact, it was a line addressing the dramatic dynamic at play between Rand and Kirk.
If the characters in the TNG movies were the same as the ones from the TNG series, they would have remained hidden until they'd removed all debris. Unfortunately, the characters in the TNG movie exist in a bizarre parallel universe filled with plot holes (like FC itself) and are embarrassing caricatures of the TNG characters.
So was the Enterprise crew in First Contact. Like I pointed out before over tjhe years here, there were so many other times they could have traveled to. We know they figured out how to do it, because they did to get back to the future (no flux capacitor required). SO, here is a NEW way they could have done it:
Once in the past, they see the Borg sphere firing on Earth, altering the past. Instead of alerting the sphere to their presence, they high-tail it into the sun, using the same idea from "Descent: Part II". no way that ship sent a message about what Picard and crew did. BUT let us assume it did. So, they hide inside the sun like episode of the series, wait for the sphere to leave, them using the time noted, travel back in time a little bit before the sphere arrived to fire on Earth, and open fire. But there are a bazillions other ideas.
Once in the past, they see the Borg sphere firing on Earth, altering the past. Instead of alerting the sphere to their presence, they high-tail it into the sun, using the same idea from "Descent: Part II". no way that ship sent a message about what Picard and crew did. BUT let us assume it did. So, they hide inside the sun like episode of the series, wait for the sphere to leave, them using the time noted, travel back in time a little bit before the sphere arrived to fire on Earth, and open fire. But there are a bazillions other ideas.
This isn't a new read. That response by Spock has been considered problematic since I started in fan circles and that was in the 80s and 90s.
in the 80s and 90s was probably the best time between men and women, somhow in "balance" between the chauvinist paternalism shown in the 60s show and the grotesque "woke" deconstruction of the sexes we see nowadays
On this whole situation of Deanna getting promoted and Data not, I am not sure it's that simple.
My takeaway from this is you can have sort of 'career channels' let's call it that within a ship. Beverly is commander as she's the CMO. Deanna within counselling was lieutenant commander and by doing the bridge exam this pushes her up to commander.
But they are not part of the command structure. They in most cases won't be doing bridge duties. They're just people with a command backup module installed. They don't outrank Riker.
Riker is the commander of the command structure. So it's captain > first officer commander > next level down second officer etc lieutenant commander so there is clear hierarchy within the command structure. If Data were to be a commander he'd need to either be first officer or move to a different ship.
That's my take. Logically Troi should report to Crusher and be capped at a Lt Commander IMO but that's a different topic entirely.
It's true, medical officers are not in the chain of command and therefore, despite Crusher and Deanna holding a higher rank than Data, Data is still their technical superior has he is the next in line in the chain of command after Riker.
Granted, being medical officers and not in the chain of command should also mean they can't take command of the bridge, which was actually canonically stated in TOS. But TNG was under criticism for not having any female characters in authority positions, which led to the introduction of Admiral Nechayev and Dr. Crusher suddenly taking command of the bridge and eventually Deanna taking the command exam where upon learning to order holographic Geordi to his death, was considered qualified to take command of the bridge.
Granted, being medical officers and not in the chain of command should also mean they can't take command of the bridge, which was actually canonically stated in TOS. But TNG was under criticism for not having any female characters in authority positions, which led to the introduction of Admiral Nechayev and Dr. Crusher suddenly taking command of the bridge and eventually Deanna taking the command exam where upon learning to order holographic Geordi to his death, was considered qualified to take command of the bridge.
In universe, it's possible Starfleet simply changed that about a hundred years later. Things do get amended, replaced, added to from time-to-time.
Interesting theory... still, ranks are flexible. Geordi was chief engineer as a LT and LCDR, ditto with Tuvok and most of DS9. Given that Data was third in command of the ship and had earned promotion by saving the Federation from disaster on two separate occasions, he still deserved that commander's pip.
Montgomery Scott- "Captain of Engineering"
I don’t find it implausible that Starfleet buried the Borg/Archer incident and promptly forgot about it..that’s the way bureaucracies work.And doubly so if the incident was marked top secret.
Perhaps during subsequent changes of personnel and inevitable “clean sweeps” of Starfleet Intelligence files were mislaid or scrubbed.
SI seems to be unusually oversupplied with incompetents.
Perhaps during subsequent changes of personnel and inevitable “clean sweeps” of Starfleet Intelligence files were mislaid or scrubbed.
SI seems to be unusually oversupplied with incompetents.
Definitely not the 80s, especially the early 80s, when movies and TV sometimes all but stated that if you were male and weren’t pushing to get laid, there was something wrong with you.
I'm sure the victims of Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein feel immensely differently.
That's been my interpretation. Of course she understands that the monster who attacked her is not Kirk, and Kirk would never behave that way. I'll add that there's no implication excusing anything. That said, Spock's line especially and Rand's reaction both deserved to be treated (i.e., scripted differently) in a way that wasn't so ham-fisted.
FC is riddled with plot holes, but the time travel aspect is the worst. It's clear that the Borg are about as intelligent as 20th century writers who couldn't come up with a better story because they were tired of the Borg. The most logical thing for the Borg to do with time travel would be to go back and prevent life from forming on Earth. Bye bye, humanity. The Borg had a lot more potential as a big screen villain, but it would have taken someone other than two exhausted writers with years of Trek experience to fully realize it.
There shouldn't have been anything for Starfleet to discover in the first place. Assuming the Enterprise recovered all of her life boats, there would have also been time to scan the planet for debris and recover it. It's yet another idiotic plot point in a movie riddled with idiotic plot points.I don’t find it implausible that Starfleet buried the Borg/Archer incident and promptly forgot about it..that’s the way bureaucracies work.And doubly so if the incident was marked top secret.
Perhaps during subsequent changes of personnel and inevitable “clean sweeps” of Starfleet Intelligence files were mislaid or scrubbed.
SI seems to be unusually oversupplied with incompetents.
I just don't think it works like that. Because it's nothing to do with his performance, it's he would be of the same rank as his superior officer. And while you can be commanded by someone of the same rank for a mission, I don't think it'd work in a command hierarchy. He can be a commander if he becomes first officer or commands a starbase ala Sisko.
Illogical circumstances, in a time travel story? Say it isn't so!
What makes you think that the Borg even could go back to that point in time, that far back? IIRC, the only instance when any species in Star Trek has gone back that far is when Q took Picard back in "All Good Things...". Q is godlike. Are the Borg godlike? Are the Borg to exist without limitation? Are we to suppose that the Borg's journey back in time was something that they could perform without risk to themselves? If that were the case, why wait to do it as an apparent last resort, when the cube was being destroyed?
Also, there's no way that the Borg could have been smarter than any group of 20th-century writers, no matter how inspired they could have gotten. I'm afraid we're just going to have to settle for living in reality regarding that.
But then there’s no distinctiveness for the Borg to add to their own. They don’t destroy just for the sake of destroying, and until the apparent destruction of the (final?) Queen in PIC, there was no significant chance of humanity seriously threatening the Collective as a whole, as opposed to the occasional
Similar threads
- Locked
