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Strange New Worlds disappointment

After extensive research, I can finally reveal the true Star Trek canon, and put a stop to these debates.

Only the following episodes are canon, everything else is not.
- The Man Trap
- A Matter of Perspective
- Gambit Part 2
- Honor Among Thieves
- Star Trek: Nemesis, but only the bit where Riker's getting beaten up in the Jeffries Tubes near the end
- A Space Adventure Hour
- Every episode of Star Trek: Scouts

Hope this ends the canon wars!
The only canonical Star Trek is Roddenberry's novelization of The Motion Picture and Admiral Kirk's preface therein.

All other versions of Star Trek are unreliable, exaggerated dramatizations of the Enterprise's logs and other Starfleet records.

(I kid. I kid because I love. Also, I kid, because, like Krusty, I am an unfunny clown.)
 
A lot of things bugged me in season 3, while they were there in the other seasons they became magnified in season 3 to the point of maybe no return

1. it is a soap opera, too much romance and little science fiction or exploring strange new worlds

2.
Bastardization of Spock's character. I had to almost puke when Laan says she sees Spock's sucks in her draw or whatever.

3. Why does Nurse Chapel get so much attention

4. why does Kirk keep showing up unnecessarily? Paul Wesley casting was not the greatest

5. Captain Pike is not a captain, I see him cooking more than been a captain.

6. Una is a foregetable number 1

7. Overall, Oretega and Uhura are background characters compared to Chapel/Laan

8. Lack of Males characters. the female to male proportional rate is not realistic and I think Spock suffers from this because he does not hang around more males.

9. Show has no real focus or balanced tone

10. Poor story telling, themes, and depth

11. They all act like they are in high school. wedding bells blues was beyond a juvenile episode, I have seen better on 90210.

12. SNW keeps ripping off Buffy/Dr Who. Zero originality.

Overall the show has left me scratching my head.
 
it is a soap opera, too much romance and little science fiction or exploring strange new worlds
No
Bastardization of Spock's character.
No
Why does Nurse Chapel get so much attention
Because Jess Bush is a great actress.
why does Kirk keep showing up unnecessarily? Paul Wesley casting was not the greatest
Paul Wesley is a great actor.
Captain Pike is not a captain,
Yes he is.
Una is a foregetable number 1
No
Overall, Oretega and Uhura are background characters
No
Lack of Males characters. the female to male proportional rate is not realistic
This is not a problem.
Show has no real focus or balanced tone
???
Poor story telling, themes, and depth
No
They all act like they are in high school. wedding bells blues was beyond a juvenile episode, I have seen better on 90210.
No
SNW keeps ripping off Buffy/Dr Who.
No
 
1. it is a soap opera, too much romance and little science fiction or exploring strange new worlds

I can see why you would think this.

2. Bastardization of Spock's character. I had to almost puke when Laan says she sees Spock's sucks in her draw or whatever.

I would say that 'bastardization' is far too strong a word for what they are doing with Spock's character. But I would say that the inordinate focus on his love life has gotten a bit out of hand.

3. Why does Nurse Chapel get so much attention

Because they feel the need to focus on why Spock and Chapel act the way they do in TOS, even if it means that they are taking things out of context.

4. why does Kirk keep showing up unnecessarily? Paul Wesley casting was not the greatest

Because Pike has to step down some time. And it's obvious that SNW was set up from day one to end with the TOS crew. And Wesley is just fine. He's not a Shatner clone, which is a good thing.

5. Captain Pike is not a captain, I see him cooking more than been a captain.

Yes, he cooks. And yes, he's on his way out because Kirk is eventually going to replace him.

6. Una is a foregetable number 1

I would not agree with that statement.

7. Overall, Oretega and Uhura are background characters compared to Chapel/Laan

Well, yes, because when you only have ten episode seasons and you have at least ten main characters, some people are going to get the shaft. And since Ortegas and Uhura are not part of the SNW (Spock's New Women...see what I did there?), they aren't going to get the focus that Chapel is getting.

8. Lack of Males characters. the female to male proportional rate is not realistic and I think Spock suffers from this because he does not hang around more males.

I have no idea what you're talking about here.

9. Show has no real focus or balanced tone

The premise was for the show to be episodic, like TOS originally was. Whether that actually happened is debatable.

10. Poor story telling, themes, and depth

I haven't watched season 3 yet so I can't speak to this.

11. They all act like they are in high school. wedding bells blues was beyond a juvenile episode, I have seen better on 90210.

See above.

12. SNW keeps ripping off Buffy/Dr Who. Zero originality.

I would ask exactly how it is ripping off those shows.

Overall the show has left me scratching my head.

What exactly were you expecting that the show is not giving you, besides the aforementioned focus on Spock's love life, your dislike of Paul Wesley & Una, and why background characters aren't getting focused on more?
 

1. it is a soap opera, too much romance and little science fiction or exploring strange new worlds
Star Trek isn't really about "exploring strange new words" or even science/science fiction. Its about people, problems and the problems people face. Science is just the hook those are hung on. I think the bulk of TOS's episodes have a romance angle.
2. Bastardization of Spock's character. I had to almost puke when Laan says she sees Spock's sucks in her draw or whatever.
Keeping necessary articles of clothing in the quarters of one's partner is highly logical.
3. Why does Nurse Chapel get so much attention
She's one of the show's leads. And a popular character to boot. She's better used than 75% of TNG, VOY or ENT's supposed main characters.
4. why does Kirk keep showing up unnecessarily? Paul Wesley casting was not the greatest
He's a reoccurring character. Like Q, Nog or Rom. He's been in less episodes than you have fingers.
5. Captain Pike is not a captain, I see him cooking more than been a captain.
He sits in the chair and gives orders. He also runs meetings to brainstorm the problem of the week. Pretty much in every episode. That's captaining.
6. Una is a foregetable number 1
She's could be used more. Though I do like the way she acts as Pike "voice of reason".
Overall, Oretega and Uhura are background characters compared to Chapel/Laan
Ortegas is underused, but Navia shines in every scene she's in. Uhura has had several focus episodes. More so in Seasons 1 and 2.
8. Lack of Males characters. the female to male proportional rate is not realistic and I think Spock suffers from this because he does not hang around more males.
What difference does that ratio make? How is it less "realistic" that the male dominated casts of past Treks?
Why does any character need to hang out with characters of their own sex?
9. Show has no real focus or balanced tone
Welcome to episodic TV. The show tends to have an underlying theme each season. Sorry if you missed it.
10. Poor story telling, themes, and depth
yeah...no.
11. They all act like they are in high school. wedding bells blues was beyond a juvenile episode, I have seen better on 90210.
Nope. Weddig Bell Blues is an intentional farce ( look it up). Even Shakespeare was known to do a farce or two as was TOS. Is it a good episode? No. But that's beside the point
12. SNW keeps ripping off Buffy/Dr Who. Zero originality.
Star Trek has been ripping off other properties since The Cage. Sometimes it improves on the source material, sometimes it doesn't.
 
Star Trek isn't really about "exploring strange new words" or even science/science fiction. Its about people, problems and the problems people face. Science is just the hook those are hung on. I think the bulk of TOS's episodes have a romance angle.
People say this a lot but I really don't think it's the case, or at least not as absolutely as this. TOS in particular is much less concerned with the crew than it is with the adventure or idea each week, hence Kirk's personality being totally malleable to each plot. The characters exist specifically to have no clear personality or backstory so that anything can be slotted in to tell any type of story - Kirk survived a massacre as a child which never comes up before or after, Spock was deeply in love with Leila Kalomi but you never hear about her outside one story, etc.

It's an entirely reasonable criticism IMO to say that SNW is obsessed with soap-opera-style character mini-arcs for its main crew and much less interested in the type of high-concept adventure that's typically defined Star Trek.

The model is definitely different to older shows - Voyager for example had a romance arc between Paris and Torres, but it didn't restrict either characters' ability to feature in any other type of plot in the way Spock's entanglements tend to, and it didn't preclude the show from delivering sci-fi action/adventure/mystery stories each week. SNW only ever seems interested in the latter when it's a half-sketched vehicle to facilitate the former (eg. the suicidal alien in the documentary episode, which exists not for its own plot, but to facilitate an ending where every character turns directly to the camera to talk about their Trauma Arc).
 
People say this a lot but I really don't think it's the case, or at least not as absolutely as this. TOS in particular is much less concerned with the crew than it is with the adventure or idea each week, hence Kirk's personality being totally malleable to each plot. The characters exist specifically to have no clear personality or backstory so that anything can be slotted in to tell any type of story - Kirk survived a massacre as a child which never comes up before or after, Spock was deeply in love with Leila Kalomi but you never hear about her outside one story, etc.
TOS was very much about the crew, usually in the form of Kirk, Spock or McCoy. All three developed certain character traits that carried over from episode to episode. Kirk and Spock "evolved" as the writers and actors got a handle on the characters. McCoy was more or less "fully formed" from the go. Yes we find out new things in each episode and more often than not they aren't mentioned again. But some "facts" reoccur like Kirk's brother Sam or Spock's ancestry. The writers of that time weren't overly concerned with that sort of continuity. (That sort was the purview of Soap Operas) No reason to slow down the episode with a mini-bio of the character if it didn't matter to the plot.
 
The writers of that time weren't overly concerned with that sort of continuity. (That sort was the purview of Soap Operas) No reason to slow down the episode with a mini-bio of the character if it didn't matter to the plot.
That's what I'm getting at, SNW is much more in the prestige TV/soap opera school of character writing, and I think there's a case to be made that older Star Trek never really was. SNW, especially in the third season, does seem to feel much more weighted toward longform character arcs (typically either based around trauma or romance).

Kirk (or Picard, or Janeway, etc) exist to be inserted into various plots; their personalities dictate how they react, but the plots will be about some external threat they're facing. SNW meanwhile is the inverse, where the characters are the focus and the sci-fi plots mostly exist just to happen in the background and act as an excuse for the characters to have more dramatic development.
 
Spock was deeply in love with Leila Kalomi but you never hear about her outside one story, etc.
Strangely enough the one show she should be heard about seems to be ignoring her too, unless she pops up in Season 4 (we're already halfway through 2261 when they're supposed to canonically meet)
 
Star Trek isn't really about "exploring strange new words" or even science/science fiction. Its about people, problems and the problems people face. Science is just the hook those are hung on. I think the bulk of TOS's episodes have a romance angle.

Keeping necessary articles of clothing in the quarters of one's partner is highly logical.

She's one of the show's leads. And a popular character to boot. She's better used than 75% of TNG, VOY or ENT's supposed main characters.

He's a reoccurring character. Like Q, Nog or Rom. He's been in less episodes than you have fingers.

He sits in the chair and gives orders. He also runs meetings to brainstorm the problem of the week. Pretty much in every episode. That's captaining.

She's could be used more. Though I do like the way she acts as Pike "voice of reason".

Ortegas is underused, but Navia shines in every scene she's in. Uhura has had several focus episodes. More so in Seasons 1 and 2.

What difference does that ratio make? How is it less "realistic" that the male dominated casts of past Treks?
Why does any character need to hang out with characters of their own sex?

Welcome to episodic TV. The show tends to have an underlying theme each season. Sorry if you missed it.

yeah...no.

Nope. Weddig Bell Blues is an intentional farce ( look it up). Even Shakespeare was known to do a farce or two as was TOS. Is it a good episode? No. But that's beside the point

Star Trek has been ripping off other properties since The Cage. Sometimes it improves on the source material, sometimes it doesn't.

1. Wow, yeah no. I hope I am in the right board to discuss star trek, a series that is factually regarded as the greatest and most influential science fiction series of all time and I have the metrics to prove it.

The idea that star trek is not about science fiction is ....wow. is this real? Ok. :rolleyes:

A lot of post star trek stuff since 2005 like Kelvin Timeline and Discovery has done more science fiction than SNW did in season 3 or even 2. Discovery is actually a lot stronger in the science fiction aspect and even the human and feeling aspect, what was the issue was how good or bad the science fiction was in discovery.

This whole soap opera thing has boiled over, I have seen every critic call this out and even fans. this is the reason season 3 has been poorly received.

This is a tv guide piece, I just read and other op-eds have written more on this matter
https://www.tvguide.com/news/star-trek-strange-new-worlds-spock-girlfriend/

2. Why is Spock sleeping with Khan's niece or relative. how long did it take for Spock to sleep with Chapel when Tpring left him and now he is off to Laan? Gosh I miss the days of Kelvin Trek Spock who still got a lot of flak for dating Uhura for like 5 years without drama and Kelvin Spock is meant to be the fake spock.

In the real aspect of legit criticism, there is just no defense of how they write Spock on this show. There will not even be a defense if Kirk was written like this and Kirk was meant to be the ladies man.


3. I thought the show was an ensemble? Chapel is a nurse but she does more medicine than the actual doctor, is in every staff meeting, decides if kirk is good for a star fleet job even though she is a civilian. she is in everything and can do anything and you think this is fair because she is popular? yeah, another example of bad writing. let's give a character jobs and work loads that she is not meant to be doing only because she is popular.

This is poor writing or perhaps the creators do not have much faith in their other characters. Have you seen game of thrones? that is how you do a true ensemble.

4. Kirk showing up all the time feels nothing more than a fill in and because they cannot write Pike as a true captain with good screen presence that can command his crew. so they have to remind is that Kirk will be Captain one day. Mount on this show is more of a supporting character. Also why not focus on the actual characters on the show like Ortega and Dr Mengba.

6. Una should be used more- exactly, in the true sense of fashion, Una should be getting more screen time and story lines than Chapel. this show was meant to be a spin off of Mount and Una and Spock right? Is Uhura on this tv show? oh right. I have forgotten.

8. Having more male characters makes a huge difference. TOS Spock always having to play of Kirk and Bones gave the series more weight and balance and also a different view beyond just a mostly female driven perspective.

I find it ridiculous that Spock has all this ladies drama problems and not once does he have male friends to confide in, that is not realistic. The female to male ratio on this show is poor and yes it is affecting the writing.

9. TNG was more episodic than SNW so was TOS and both of this series managed to chun out masterpiece episodes that are not just part of star trek but part of tv history. Episodic TV is not a definition of mediocre writing.

3 4.5 vulcan and wedding blues are examples of poor story telling without any depth. the fact that they ending wedding blues setting up laan/spock in that same episode shows poor writing and little depth and also made spock feeling for chapel very superficial. Jumping from one girl to another is already shallow for a human boy, so doing this to a vulcan like Spock is just sad. Vulcans are supposed to have more wisdom and feel a lot deeper than humans.

Also humans changing into vulcans and have a wrong idea of how vulcan act shows little depth as the writers failed to do their research.

12. Have you heard the phase steal from the best but make it your own? stealing is ok but when it results to a mediocre versions of the original, you are in trouble and also that is what we call it poor story telling because we have seen the original and it was better.

Star trek should not even be stealing when they series set the bar for the best of science fiction series. Geez I think I am going to avoid some things here, like the whole.... star trek is not about science fiction.
 
That's what I'm getting at, SNW is much more in the prestige TV/soap opera school of character writing, and I think there's a case to be made that older Star Trek never really was. SNW, especially in the third season, does seem to feel much more weighted toward longform character arcs (typically either based around trauma or romance).
A bad way to do truama romance as it is supposed to have weight. Spock going from Tpring-Chapel-Lann. destroys any aspect of trauma.

For realistic trauma , a person would find it hard to date again for a very long time and this is a human, talk less of a vulcan.

I am quite strong on TNG and TOS and I know for sure these were not soap opera. SNW is not even good soap opera , it is bad high school soap opera with little maturity, like Chapel bringing her new boy-friend on the ship without any warning. Spock's childish obsession with her, while she devalues him at every point.

Why did they make Chapel so dominant in the relationship with Spock? Not once did their romance ever have balance. Spock/Chapel were toxic and they have no business been a couple as they were written in SNW in the star trek mythos. Most star trek romances tend to be classy, subtle, tasteful, respectful of each partners. SNW has little of this.

In SNW, Spock was just Chapel lap dog. this is a total insult to Spock's character when you think in TOS not once did he care about this woman. she was the one swooning over him not the other way around. Have the writers seen TOS?

The whole concept of Spock was that he was meant to be unattainable, he has gone from that to a 90210 teen character in SNW? I apologise to Quinto Spock as I once use to give him a hard time.

I feel the real reason why I find the spock/chapel ship hilariously bad because we already know their dynamic in TOS. So it is comical to see the creators of the show try to reverse the status of TOS but only ending on making it worse.

Someone pointed out on reddit star trek that the writers of SNW came from the CW network and this is why there is so much bad romance. they are not science fiction writers.

it is kind of crazy because SNW has gotten so bad that I will take a standard CW DC show like Supergirl or Flash at least this shows do balance science fiction/comic book and romance.

Also speaking of comic book, Batel by episode 10 has like super powers right? And what of the zombies? when ever star trek did fantasy, it was mostly low fantasy. Zombies are just a tad too much.

so we have in SNW soap opera and fantasy.
 
Also speaking of comic book, Batel by episode 10 has like super powers right? And what of the zombies? when ever star trek did fantasy, it was mostly low fantasy. Zombies are just a tad too much.
I think there was always a strong fantasy element - Apollo grabbing them out of the sky, the cloud city in The Cloud Minders, stuff like that.

The issue I think with SNW's latest season is that all this stuff is so surface-level and underwritten; the zombies aren't really different conceptually from the Grups in "Miri", but in "Miri" the entire episode was dedicated to engaging with the idea, while in SNW the zombies are just background noise so M'Benga can demonstrate his Tragic Backstory again.

The Batel superpowers stuff was the same, we've had plenty of superpowers in Star Trek (Gary Mitchell, Trelane, Q, etc) but the Batel stuff had no thematic weight and the script didn't build the idea up or take it anywhere (the Ultimate Good DNA is a combo of Gorn, alien flower, and Illyrian???), just a collection of tropes from other media jammed into Star Trek.
 
decides if kirk is good for a star fleet job even though she is a civilian.
We don't know how Fed/Starfleet rules work and Chapel as a nurse may be given authority within Fed law to relieve Kirk. Trek waffles between military/non-military (Star Trek Beyond has Scotty outright say that Starfleet isn't a military, although this may be a concept unique to the Kelvin timeline as they never suffered the Disco Klingon war). We can conclude at the least that Starfleet is not a normal Earth military as we know it so their rules may be different.
 
1. Wow, yeah no. I hope I am in the right board to discuss star trek, a series that is factually regarded as the greatest and most influential science fiction series of all time and I have the metrics to prove it.

The idea that star trek is not about science fiction is ....wow. is this real? Ok. :rolleyes:
It's not about "science fiction" it's about telling stories in a Science Fiction milieu. see my sig
"Tell your story about people, not about science and gadgetry. Joe Friday doesn't stop to explain the mechanics of his .38 before he uses it; Kildare never did a monologue about the theory of anesthetics; Matt Dillon never identifies and discusses the breed of his horse before he rides off on it." -Gene Roddenberry,
2. Why is Spock sleeping with Khan's niece or relative. how long did it take for Spock to sleep with Chapel when Tpring left him and now he is off to Laan? Gosh I miss the days of Kelvin Trek Spock who still got a lot of flak for dating Uhura for like 5 years without drama and Kelvin Spock is meant to be the fake spock.
I don't see what the problem here is. He's moved on. IIRC its been months since Chapel and Spock broke up and he and La'An ( she has a name) began their relationship.
In the real aspect of legit criticism, there is just no defense of how they write Spock on this show. There will not even be a defense if Kirk was written like this and Kirk was meant to be the ladies man.
Kirk was never written as a ladies man in TOS. Written how exactly? Spock's had three relationships in the show over the course of three years. Hardly odd. It's also been clear that Spock is still exploring his human half. It's probably not going to end well for him because he's not equipped to deal with human in an intimate setting. La'An is going to wind up breaking him like Chapel did. Too bad he can't call up dad for some relationship advice.
3. I thought the show was an ensemble? Chapel is a nurse but she does more medicine than the actual doctor, is in every staff meeting, decides if kirk is good for a star fleet job even though she is a civilian. she is in everything and can do anything and you think this is fair because she is popular? yeah, another example of bad writing. let's give a character jobs and work loads that she is not meant to be doing only because she is popular.
How does Chapel getting to be the lead in some episodes make it less on an ensemble? The lead character switches from episode to episode. You'll have to refresh my memory on which episode she recommended Kirk for a "starfleet" job. Has there been an instance of her doing something outside her specialties in medicine and science?
4. Kirk showing up all the time feels nothing more than a fill in and because they cannot write Pike as a true captain with good screen presence that can command his crew. so they have to remind is that Kirk will be Captain one day. Mount on this show is more of a supporting character. Also why not focus on the actual characters on the show like Ortega and Dr Mengba.
Again how is six (seven if you count "The Space Adventure Hour" but Wesley isn't Kirk in that) episodes out of thirty "all of the time"?
Which episodes is Kirk more than a guest star?
Ortegas and M'Benga, actually. Both of whom have had focus episodes this season.
6. Una should be used more- exactly, in the true sense of fashion, Una should be getting more screen time and story lines than Chapel. this show was meant to be a spin off of Mount and Una and Spock right? Is Uhura on this tv show? oh right. I have forgotten.
No it wasn't meant to be the Pike/Spock/Una show.
Yeah, Uhura is on this show.
8. Having more male characters makes a huge difference. TOS Spock always having to play of Kirk and Bones gave the series more weight and balance and also a different view beyond just a mostly female driven perspective.
Still don't get this.
I find it ridiculous that Spock has all this ladies drama problems and not once does he have male friends to confide in, that is not realistic. The female to male ratio on this show is poor and yes it is affecting the writing.
Nor this.
9. TNG was more episodic than SNW so was TOS and both of this series managed to chun out masterpiece episodes that are not just part of star trek but part of tv history. Episodic TV is not a definition of mediocre writing.
Did someone say Episodic TV is the definition of mediocre writing?
SNW has a few masterpieces. "Lift Us Up Where Suffering Cannot Reach", "Ad Aspera Ad Aspera", Tomorrow, Tomorrow and Tomorrow" and "Under the Cloak of War" come to mind.
3 4.5 vulcan and wedding blues are examples of poor story telling without any depth. the fact that they ending wedding blues setting up laan/spock in that same episode shows poor writing and little depth and also made spock feeling for chapel very superficial. Jumping from one girl to another is already shallow for a human boy, so doing this to a vulcan like Spock is just sad. Vulcans are supposed to have more wisdom and feel a lot deeper than humans.
"Poor story telling" I don't think that phrase means what you think it does.
Also humans changing into vulcans and have a wrong idea of how vulcan act shows little depth as the writers failed to do their research.
Where does their research fail? Each of the "Vulcans" represent aspects of Vulcan character traits seen throughout the history of Star Trek. Part of the "idea" presented here comes from Spock's history as a half-human growing up on Vulcan rather than a human's idea of Vulcans.
12. Have you heard the phase steal from the best but make it your own? stealing is ok but when it results to a mediocre versions of the original, you are in trouble and also that is what we call it poor story telling because we have seen the original and it was better.

Star trek should not even be stealing when they series set the bar for the best of science fiction series. Geez I think I am going to avoid some things here, like the whole.... star trek is not about science fiction.
No, but I have heard the phrase ""Good artists borrow, great artists steal". (Picasso)
Who is this "we" you speak of?
Good lord. Like I said, Star Trek has been stealing since "the Cage". Most famously in "A Balance of Terror". Trek wouldn't even exist with out Forbidden Planet (Which wouldn't exist with out "The Tempest")
Again, Star Trek isn't about science fiction. its about people and situations in a science fiction setting.
 
We don't know how Fed/Starfleet rules work and Chapel as a nurse may be given authority within Fed law to relieve Kirk. Trek waffles between military/non-military (Star Trek Beyond has Scotty outright say that Starfleet isn't a military, although this may be a concept unique to the Kelvin timeline as they never suffered the Disco Klingon war). We can conclude at the least that Starfleet is not a normal Earth military as we know it so their rules may be different.
I think there was always a strong fantasy element - Apollo grabbing them out of the sky, the cloud city in The Cloud Minders, stuff like that.

The issue I think with SNW's latest season is that all this stuff is so surface-level and underwritten; the zombies aren't really different conceptually from the Grups in "Miri", but in "Miri" the entire episode was dedicated to engaging with the idea, while in SNW the zombies are just background noise so M'Benga can demonstrate his Tragic Backstory again.

The Batel superpowers stuff was the same, we've had plenty of superpowers in Star Trek (Gary Mitchell, Trelane, Q, etc) but the Batel stuff had no thematic weight and the script didn't build the idea up or take it anywhere (the Ultimate Good DNA is a combo of Gorn, alien flower, and Illyrian???), just a collection of tropes from other media jammed into Star Trek.

I thought the core difference between star trek and star wars was the fantasy... right? SNW has done more fantasy than star wars. Andor that came out this year has done better sci-fi than SNW. Oh the irony. star trek and star wars concept have switched in 2025.

the stories are indeed surface level that is why they lack depth. Although the signs were there in the musical episode. Unlike Buffy where every song had its own context and hidden meaning and set out more plot point going forward. SNW musical was just generic which leads me to my next point that you have already made that there is no thematic weight to any of the plot or characters.

Take Batel, her fate was not really earned, so was the imagined future. It felt contrived....they created the story so they could have the moments they wanted, instead of the moments being earned through the quality of the story itself.

Also questioning of the idea of there being an absolute evil, how does that apply to a scientist?it is very clear the writers of the show want to be writing and making fantasy keep trying to do sci fi.

Lastly the mind meld between kirk and spock. In TOS, the kirk and spock friendship grew due to years of working and trusting each other, not because spock did a mind meld, which leads to the next point, Spock does not easily do mind melds with anyone but this is what you get when you feel the need to shoehorn kirk and scrap the pot for story.

In TOS the depth of kirk and spock is that we see them become who they are in the space of 3 seasons and 6 movies. That is where the depth comes from, it is rooted on that friendship and blossom like flowers

Now in SNW, it is ......oh, we did a mind meld now we know we must be friends. it is a crop out anc cheapens TOS.

I remember the yaho review for this episode calling this episode pointless
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tv/articles/strange-worlds-turns-star-trek-163101091.html
 
I thought the core difference between star trek and star wars was the fantasy... right?
Thats what Trekkies would like to believe The big difference is there are more royals in Star Wars. Vulcan Mind Meld. Jedi Mind trick. Both the same pulpy ScFi trope
Andor that came out this year has done better sci-fi than SNW.
Andor is social commentary and a political thriller with an SciFi veneer. Very little science there, fictional or other wise. It better written than any Star Trek show or movie.
 
I thought the core difference between star trek and star wars was the fantasy... right? SNW has done more fantasy than star wars. Andor that came out this year has done better sci-fi than SNW. Oh the irony. star trek and star wars concept have switched in 2025.
Sci-fi and fantasy aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, I'd argue - in the tabletop and PC gaming scene in the 80s and early 90s, you'd often have blends of both (like the early Might & Magic games, which start out as standard fantasy stuff and often end with your party of knights and sorceresses wielding laser guns and storming alien spaceships - same for Wizardry and the first Ultima game). Older pulp magazine stories often went for a mix of (fantastical) science and magic-by-any-other-name too.

TOS has one foot firmly in fantasy, the universe is full of godlike entities, magical phenomena, mages (even if they're called "psi-capable people" or w/e), etc. IMO it's part of what makes TOS so much fun and more dreamy and thematically rich than some of the "hard" sci-fi we got in later decades.
 
Sci-fi and fantasy aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, I'd argue - in the tabletop and PC gaming scene in the 80s and early 90s, you'd often have blends of both (like the early Might & Magic games, which start out as standard fantasy stuff and often end with your party of knights and sorceresses wielding laser guns and storming alien spaceships - same for Wizardry and the first Ultima game). Older pulp magazine stories often went for a mix of (fantastical) science and magic-by-any-other-name too.

TOS has one foot firmly in fantasy, the universe is full of godlike entities, magical phenomena, mages (even if they're called "psi-capable people" or w/e), etc. IMO it's part of what makes TOS so much fun and more dreamy and thematically rich than some of the "hard" sci-fi we got in later decades.

Sci-Fi and Fantasy overlap but are not the same.

star trek is based on exploring and the concept that a scientific hypothesis can be possible in the future.

star wars- the entire base for the series is something called The Force and also the concept of good and evil is made bare and there is this dark lord they have to beat. this also shows in lord of the rings, buffy, harry potter.

I will not put star trek in this category of fantasy. As I said, trek already does low fantasy, however when you are now at the point of ripping of aliens and buffy and your characters are going full god mode with no real reasonable to why. you have lost your way.
 
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