20 years ago tonight the Enterprise finale aired. So....what's your opinion two decades on?

[Dukhat]

That would seem counterintuitive. But, when you consider that...
- When certain fans expressed their concern about a certain character's ridiculous lack of promotion, "Nightingale" pretty much told them to choke on it.
- When other fans expressed sorrow at losing a promising character, "Fury" brought her back briefly... but also destroyed the satisfying ending she got earlier in the series.
- And "These Are the Voyages"... there is almost nothing that putrid mess managed to get right. It's hard to believe that what was intended as a valentine turned into a gut-kick, but I guess you can't underestimate the power of human incompetence.

Again, I see nothing here but your personal opinion that you don’t like those particular episodes, so you equate that with their producer having some personal reason to make you angry.

News flash: the people who made those episodes made them because it was their job to make them. They got paid to make a Voyager episode, not to promote their personal agenda of hate toward a particular fictional character. And they believed that they were making a good product that the audience would enjoy, for free. Fans who feel otherwise give other fans a bad name.

 

[Dee1891]

I still have a low opinion of the Season 4 finale, along with the entire fourth season.

 

[Oddish]

Again, I see nothing here but your personal opinion that you don’t like those particular episodes, so you equate that with their producer having some personal reason to make you angry.

News flash: the people who made those episodes made them because it was their job to make them. They got paid to make a Voyager episode, not to promote their personal agenda of hate toward a particular fictional character. And they believed that they were making a good product that the audience would enjoy, for free.

I can believe that... about the episodes themselves (certain elements within a given episode, not so). Though given the quality of these offerings, perhaps whoever paid them should have requested a refund.

Fans who feel otherwise give other fans a bad name.

If we don't point out the things we didn't like, the product never improves.

I still have a low opinion of the Season 4 finale, along with the entire fourth season.

I thought S4 was where ENT really started to be the show it could have been: a legit prequel. Of course, the previous three seasons had already done irreparable damage, by making so much of 22nd century tech essentially identical to 23rd and 24th, and the temporal cold war business. But if it had gotten a 5th season, I think it could have run its scheduled seven.

 

[Dukhat]

If we don't point out the things we didn't like, the product never improves.

Only two things can happen in this regard:

1. The producers listen to the fans, and we get some gobbledygook that won't please everyone because no two fans think alike, or

2. The producers don't listen to the fans, make whatever they want, and there will be no consensus from the fans as to whether it's good or not.

Either way, the producers are screwed. So listening to online fan bitching does nothing.

 

[Oddish]

I'm sorry if it upsets you that I happen to think certain episodes were substandard. But I do. If you liked them, fine and dandy.

I know, that's a crazy concept. We live in an age where ramming your opinion down another person's throat with a side order of insults and abuse is expected behavior... but some of us can still agree to disagree.

 

[Dukhat]

I'm sorry if it upsets you that I happen to think certain episodes were substandard. But I do. If you liked them, fine and dandy.

I know, that's a crazy concept. We live in an age where ramming your opinion down another person's throat with a side order of insults and abuse is expected behavior... but some of us can still agree to disagree.

You think I'm upset because I'm calling you out for your perceived opinions that certain Trek producers hate you?

 

[cooleddie74]

I definitely don't think B&B wanted to annoy or anger me with the finale. They're network and syndicated television producers overseeing millions of dollars in production costs and having to deal with network suits who have often unreasonable demands on the creative community. That said, the episode was a dramatic misfire and creative disaster that served almost nobody well at either end of the production process and the final airing of the episode.

I can believe that in their hearts they actually saw it as a love letter and "Valentine" to the fans who'd stuck with them over the decades and speficially since 1987, but damn, was it a bottom-of-the-barrel box of chocolates that taste more like laxatives and have a really waxy, unnatural appearance when you open the box. B&B weren't being mean to me, but they also crafted a garbage finale.

 

[Oddish]

You think I'm upset because I'm calling you out for your perceived opinions that certain Trek producers hate you?

Absolutely not. I was speaking in general terms, about how disagreements typically unfold here.

I can believe that in their hearts they actually saw it as a love letter and "Valentine" to the fans who'd stuck with them over the decades and speficially since 1987, but damn, was it a bottom-of-the-barrel box of chocolates that taste more like laxatives and have a really waxy, unnatural appearance when you open the box. B&B weren't being mean to me, but they also crafted a garbage finale.

I think you have it right.

I likewise think that "Fury" was an attempt to bring back Kes with no regard for her existing story arc, and "Nightingale" was an attempt to focus an episode on a character they probably should have just written out of the series long before, given their unwillingness to do anything with him.

 

[Dukhat]

Absolutely not. I was speaking in general terms, about how disagreements typically unfold here.

Good. Because I found your opinions far more humorous than upsetting.

 

[Oddish]

Good. Because I found your opinions far more humorous than upsetting.

Well, I'm happy that you're happy. And if you happen to like episodes I don't (including TATV), that's perfectly fine too.

 

[Dukhat]

I hated TATV. But I'm over it.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

They grabbed a loser script rotting in a drawer and didn't even dust it off.

I've never heard this before? Could you elaborate?

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Forgive me for not being able to cite a specific source - perhaps someone with more firsthand knowledge can help me out with that. I have read several posts here at TBBS about it.

As I understand it, the script for TATV was a draft that had been written previously, but not used, and not written as the series finale set in the future. This seems to explain the weird lack of updating, other than a few cosmetic changes to uniforms, and T'Pol's longer hair. No mention of the Romulan War, no promotions. (Compare this to the detailed changes brought to the future in "Twilight".) I can't remember if Trip was supposed to actually die, or if this was a cliffhanger and the plan was for him to come back in a subsequent episode.

If I'm misremembering and the script was actually written specifically for the finale, then... good gravy, I have no idea how the Beebs could think this plot or these characters made a lick of sense, much less that this story could serve as an emotionally satisfying farewell to the ENT crew. Not a "good death" by a long shot.

 

[Oddish]

When Jonathan Frakes freely admits he shouldn't have been there, there's a problem.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Forgive me for not being able to cite a specific source - perhaps someone with more firsthand knowledge can help me out with that. I have read several posts here at TBBS about it.

As I understand it, the script for TATV was a draft that had been written previously, but not used, and not written as the series finale set in the future. This seems to explain the weird lack of updating, other than a few cosmetic changes to uniforms, and T'Pol's longer hair. No mention of the Romulan War, no promotions. (Compare this to the detailed changes brought to the future in "Twilight".) I can't remember if Trip was supposed to actually die, or if this was a cliffhanger and the plan was for him to come back in a subsequent episode.

If I'm misremembering and the script was actually written specifically for the finale, then... good gravy, I have no idea how the Beebs could think this plot or these characters made a lick of sense, much less that this story could serve as an emotionally satisfying farewell to the ENT crew. Not a "good death" by a long shot.

Don't mistake me. Not doubting you or badgering you for a source. Just interested more than anything. I'll do some digging of my own! :-)