That's a good question. I always assumed Pike's lower half was still there but paralyzed.
Spoilers Canon, Continuity, and Pike's Accident
- Thread starter CorporalCaptain
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"More advanced" falls into a few different categories.
Bigger. The Disco and SNW sets are bigger. The screens are bigger. The consoles are bigger. Arguably the ship is bigger. There is nothing other than studio budget that would have prevented TOS or TMP or even TNG from making the bridges this big. If money (and time) had been no object, WOULD they have? Maybe? Maybe not. Some of the early TNG designs were so minimal they looked like a living room because none of the "ugly" tech was presented. It was so advanced it was magic.
Style. There is nothing about the TOS style vs. the TMP style vs. DISCO style that is inherently "more advanced" in what it is representing. There are production techniques that are more advanced. I'm not sure if the curve of Pike's captain's chair is more advanced than Kirk's. But it reads as "cooler" now. Uniforms fall squarely into this bucket. There is nothing more "advanced" about any era of uniform than any other with a slight caveat for ENT's NASA inspired uniforms.
Present Day Technology. Here is our iceberg. And this splits into two directions. Depiction and capability.
Capability. In-universe both TOS and SNW still have "magic" computers. There are instances where our understanding of the possibilities has changed. People don't carry around stacks of disks or data chips anymore. It's actually worse in TNG where they represent a cluttered desk with stacks of PADDs. So yes, SNW is more advanced than TOS in many ways. But it also means that if you go back 100 years (either from TNG to TOS or from TOS to ENT) you can't unwind 100 years of present day tech or even 50 years of it. You CAN cut the capabilities such as warp speed, types of weaponry, transporter capability, sensor ranges, etc. They just don't. (Seriously, if they just made the transporter something they could barely use to move people and things and never try to do things like beam medicine into people or transport people with local clothing in place that would help a LOT. Same with "We can get all the way across the quadrant in a shuttle in three days" or whatever it was.)
DISCO actually tried to make some tech magic again when they went to the far future. I wonder what they thought of the story consequences of those advancements? One of the day one decisions of TOS was Pike could not simply push a button to get back to the ship. It made technological sense but they decided it hindered potential jeopardy. Same with putting a transporter or a briefing area on the bridge in TNG. It made better dramatic sense to have to WALK someplace.
So finally, Depiction. Computer and display tech is far more advanced in 2024 than in 1964. (This is like 90% of what people usually mean by "advanced".) So the fact that we can put a real time computer display on the bridge on a budget is certainly different than TOS. So if we see an animated display on the SNW bridge we say "Oh, that's more advanced." So how do we now make that display 10 years more advanced? 100 years more advanced? (Whooo. It's now a blue hologram based on what Star Wars said holograms would look like in 1977. At least when TNG did holograms there was no visual "tell" that we were looking at a hologram. They were just there.)
In 1966 for TOS they could not build an operational bridge for the Enterprise. Everything the TOS ship did (just in terms of what we saw on the set) was decades more advanced that the present day. It was more advanced than our best computer complexes. In SNW? You could build that bridge. And for the most part they have. Add some real time menus and programs to back them up, add actual voice recognition? You have the SNW bridge. 2256 looks ABOUT like a really nerdy 2024. So how do you make that more / less advanced? You can't make it less advanced because then it just looks like a 1980's Space Shuttle or maybe an Apple ][. And you can't make it MORE advanced without running into DISCO far future stuff and totally running over TNG and PIC.
How do you get from SNW to SNW-TMP? Apparently you just take all of the colors on the bridge away. Which is pretty much what The Cage looked like in 1964.
Knock yourself out.
You have "Tomorrow Tomorrow Tomorrow" to give you your out if you must have clarification on screen.
Prodigy has recently reminded me that it's possible to use "older" tech if a situation is severe enough to warrant it. Whether the rationale behind it is sound is up for debate, but the door isn't necessarily closed for a similar explanation.
I understand that an explanation isn't necessary for many, but to be provided with one isn't the end of the world. The timeline changes is fine, absolutely, but perhaps another possibility will present itself in a later season. We just don't know what Goldsman has in mind.
Watching Andor for the first time has also reminded me of debates that raged regarding the prequels vs originals. How the originals had technological simplism, whilst the prequels had a more advanced streamlined aesthetic, despite being set before.
I understand that an explanation isn't necessary for many, but to be provided with one isn't the end of the world. The timeline changes is fine, absolutely, but perhaps another possibility will present itself in a later season. We just don't know what Goldsman has in mind.
Watching Andor for the first time has also reminded me of debates that raged regarding the prequels vs originals. How the originals had technological simplism, whilst the prequels had a more advanced streamlined aesthetic, despite being set before.
There's no if about it. It is. Changing the look is no different than recasting an actor. Star Trek's III and four aren't in a different universe/timeline/reality because Robin Curtis is playing Saavik instead of Kirstie Alley.
I think a lot of people would say Robin Curtis' Saavik does feel like she's from a different universe!
She's a lot more reserved after Spock's passing, that's for sure.
Exactly. The "it was not necessary" argument means it was also no problem to have it. And many elements of all shows and movies are not really "necessary" anyway
So, are those movies in different continuities?
Every movie and episode are a different continuity!
Wait, its a multiverse?
Always has been.
That's both my favorite and least favorite thing to happen in quite some time.
We actually DO have on screen confirmation that SNW does not take place in the "original" timeline. Everyone just seems to kind of ignore it, but they told us flat out in the episode. I find it odd that people tend to hang on every detail... until there's a detail that I guess some just don't like or whatever, and then just completely ignore that detail.
So...Star Trek?
Because that's been my experience a lot of the time. I love the little details, but there are a lot of little ones that don't make a lot of sense. I think SNW works better in a larger picture way when connected with TOS, and that's also my preference because I've wanted a Pike show for over 30 years.
But, honestly, at this point, TOS is it's own thing, the films their own thing, and SNW its own thing, unconnected, unrelated to everything else. It's more fun that way sometimes.
Because Tomorrow x3 + producers claiming that this is the Prime Timeline = TOS has been rewritten, and I'd rather pretend that I misheard something.
TOS still exists
They changed a date. They've made bigger changes to TOS during TOS.
It was rewritten back in the 80's with Encounter at Farpoint. SNW just further acknowledged that change.
There's a chance something will get rewritten anytime a writer opens a notebook, laptop or file starting in 1965.
Absolutely. You could fill a thread with all the things Trek has rewritten over the decades, starting right from the very beginning.There's a chance something will get rewritten anytime a writer opens a notebook, laptop or file starting in 1965.
That might have flown when the episode was made, but now, given advances for paralytics?
It's kind of like a steam cabinet on wheels. Maybe it holds him together from destabilizing on a molecular level.
Pike is light side of the force Trek Vader.
Whose to say the TL didn't alter when Gary Mitchell got his powers and altered reality to James R. Kirk? Or that the universe that Kirk and trio returned to after letting Edith Keeler did was the exact same, and that their actions inadvertedly led to an earlier EW that happened in the 1990's?
That's right, I'm digging the hole even deeper!
That's right, I'm digging the hole even deeper!
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