Spoilers Canon, Continuity, and Pike's Accident

[evilchumlee]

Except they contradict, so to me, no they don't.

That just means there is an explanation that we were not given the full details of.

I already laid out a potential explanation, that also incorporates info from SNW... the Eugenics Wars were not a single conflict. The name itself implies that. Eugenics Wars.

It just depends on some context as to how the term is used. When Spock refers to the Eugenics Wars as "the last of your so called world wars", he's speaking of the entire conflict, which culminated in WW3 and sometimes seems to just get lumped in with it. "The Eugenics Wars" could refer a series of conflicts from 1992 through the 2050's.

Except for the in the SNW timeline, where it was given a fairly definitive answer.

 

[fireproof78]

It just depends on some context as to how the term is used. When Spock refers to the Eugenics Wars as "the last of your so called world wars", he's speaking of the entire conflict, which culminated in WW3 and sometimes seems to just get lumped in with it. "The Eugenics Wars" could refer a series of conflicts from 1992 through the 2050's.

It could, but I doubt it, since he calls it the era of.

The "90s" is not an era that includes the 2000s, by my understanding of the term.

So, when TNG changed it, to me, it moved it outside of the TOS timeline. TOS is its own thing and will always be. TNG is not apart of it.

 

[HotRod]

Right but that was what I addressed. TNG did not explicitly invalidate anything like Tommorowx3 did. It gave some conflicting information. That's a completely different situation.

SNW explicitly noted that it just flat out did not happen. It was changed. The timeline where the Eugenics Wars happened in 1992... is not the timeline where SNW takes place.

Which then makes it impossible for TOS and SNW to occur in the same timeline...

You could make an argument that it means some of the conflicting information means TNG, DS9 and ENT are also in a different timeline, but the three of those went out of their way to confirm that they do.

Could it not be.... now bear with me. Could it not be that they were having a little fun, poking at one of the various little inconsistencies that have cropped up over the many decades?

 

[fireproof78]

Could it not be.... now bear with me. Could it not be that they were having a little fun, poking at one of the various little inconsistencies that have cropped up over the many decades?

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[Daedalus]

So, when TNG changed it, to me, it moved it outside of the TOS timeline. TOS is its own thing and will always be. TNG is not apart of it.

Would not a version of TOS exist in the TNG timeline for the PSI 2000 incident to be referenced in The Naked Now and the original Enterprise bridge design to show up in Relics?

Not trying to dispute your headcanon ofc, but its near impossible for it to be absent entirely, right?

 

[fireproof78]

When I

Would not a version of TOS exist in the TNG timeline for the PSI 2000 incident to be referenced in The Naked Now and the original Enterprise bridge design to show up in Relics?

Not trying to dispute your headcanon ofc, but its near impossible for it to be absent entirely, right?

A version, yes.

The version that appeared in TOS? No.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Well. That wouldn't mean much in the course of time.

It might, to some.

 

[Frontis]

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[The Wormhole]

Could it not be that they were having a little fun

Fun in Star Trek? Gene have mercy on our souls!

 

[Daedalus]

A version, yes.

The version that appeared in TOS? No.

That's fair, it would be tough to imagine TNG happening in a total vacuum.

(I realise the irony )

 

[fireproof78]

That's fair, it would be tough to imagine TNG happening in a total vacuum.

(I realise the irony )

Honestly, it's why I like TOS a whole separate thing because it really is more interesting with the UESPA and the heavier Earth influences, and different history than what ENT showed or connected to TNG.

 

[evilchumlee]

Could it not be.... now bear with me. Could it not be that they were having a little fun, poking at one of the various little inconsistencies that have cropped up over the many decades?

I mean, that's also what i'm doing, just from a different angle. This *IS* fun for me. I wouldn't be doing if it wasn't.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

In "Yesteryear", Spock must continue forward in a timeline in which I-Chaya died.

Well. That wouldn't mean much in the course of time.

I-Chaya was the Trooper of his day.

Poor Trooper. He mattered so little to the timeline that only his original author cared when he went away in rewrites.

 

[Tuskin38]

but the three of those went out of their way to confirm that they do.

So did SNW when they did the Lower Decks crossover

Boimler and Mariner notice nothing wrong. And there’s references to the crossover in LDS Season 4 along all the other references to nearly every tv series and movie

 

[Tallguy]

along all the other references to nearly every tv series and movie

TAS is canon! WIN!

 

[evilchumlee]

So did SNW when they did the Lower Decks crossover

Boimler and Mariner notice nothing wrong. And there’s references to the crossover in LDS Season 4 along all the other references to nearly every tv series and movie

Sort of. It confirmed that LDS is a part of the SNW timeline, not the "original" TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT timeline.

All that the references and such really do is to tell a story that very similar evens take place in the DSC/SNW/LDS, which basically just amount to "everything is virtually the same except TOS is erased/replaced."

Or, I suppose that the LDS crossover may actually just confirm that... somehow... SNW "becomes" TOS in a few years. The Enterprise must be set for a major refit (defit?) inbetween Pike and Kirk.

 

[Daedalus]

Sort of. It confirmed that LDS is a part of the SNW timeline, not the "original" TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT timeline.

All that the references and such really do is to tell a story that very similar evens take place in the DSC/SNW/LDS, which basically just amount to "everything is virtually the same except TOS is erased/replaced."

Or, I suppose that the LDS crossover may actually just confirm that... somehow... SNW "becomes" TOS in a few years. The Enterprise must be set for a major refit (defit?) inbetween Pike and Kirk.

I think it's possible. It's years away at best, so we just have to wait and see. We can all place bets on what Goldsman has planned for that final episode, but none of us can know for sure.

I think I just lack the artistic capacity to get behind the "visual reboot" concept, but kudos to those who do. I prefer the 'Haynes manual' approach to Trek, which means the answer to how pieces fit together is on the next page. I blame Star Trek Fact Files for this.

 

[HotRod]

Sort of. It confirmed that LDS is a part of the SNW timeline, not the "original" TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT timeline.

All that the references and such really do is to tell a story that very similar evens take place in the DSC/SNW/LDS, which basically just amount to "everything is virtually the same except TOS is erased/replaced."

Or, I suppose that the LDS crossover may actually just confirm that... somehow... SNW "becomes" TOS in a few years. The Enterprise must be set for a major refit (defit?) inbetween Pike and Kirk.

I really, genuinely cannot understand why the idea of a visual update is such a hard pill for some fans to swallow. It boggles my mind the lengths people will go to try and explain it or disconnect it from the prime timeline, when the explanation is simple....

It's an updated visual aesthetic. That's it. The plots, characters, everything, will carry on just as it did in TOS, it just looks different because, in the end, it's just a TV show that producers wanted to look modern.

That's it. Beyond that, it has more more continuity issues than any other show.

 

[Lord Hierarch]

I'm waiting for the end of the series when Kirk takes over and the 1701 looks the same as in the beginning. The screams of outranged fans that the Enterprise didn't get a "refit" will be hilarious.

Petty, I know. But the idea amuses me.

 

[Mudd]

They changed a date. They've made bigger changes to TOS during TOS.

Abso-fucking-lutely right.

I'll trade you TOS's one line about the 1990s for SNW in a heartbeat.

If they want to pull TOS and use AI to change and reissue the episode, I'm cool with that, too.

In fact, right about now that sounds like a bit of a giggle.