Spoilers Canon, Continuity, and Pike's Accident

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds' started by CorporalCaptain, May 19, 2023.

  1. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Verona, New Jersey, USA
    ...You know what I like about this place? All the great conversations.
     
    Magistos, Kor, Victoria and 2 others like this.
  2. Dukhat

    Dukhat Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    I already did.

    I know, right?
     
  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    I learn something new every day :)
     
    Commander Troi likes this.
  4. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 2, 2005
    Location:
    Beyond the Farthest Star
    Someone tagged this post from before season 2. I felt I needed to update my former self.

    I still don't like A Quality of Mercy very much (except for the end scene with Pike and Spock), But WOW did I love Wesley's Kirk in season 2!
     
  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Wormhole
    For sure, Wesley's performance as Kirk in S2 was much better than in the S1 finale, where he seemed to be trying too hard to mimic Shatner.
     
  6. evilchumlee

    evilchumlee Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2023
    This is also a poor argument that comes up alot though.

    Yes, there was a change between TOS and TMP. TOS takes place before TMP, therefore... something happened in-between TOS and TMP to cause a difference in appearance. I can accept that. No explanation needed. "something happened".

    DSC takes place in between ENT and TOS.
    We know what Klingons looked like during ENT.
    We know what Klingons looked like during TOS.
    ENT even provided an explanation as to why there was a difference between those two. It wasn't actually necessary, but whatever.

    DSC... does not look like either of them, despite being set in a time period where the works have established what the Klingons look like.

    It's not an apples to apples comparison. Sure, we can do all sorts of mental gymnastics to make sense of it, or just throw our hands up use the studio's explanation "that's just how they look now", but it's stupid and even THEY know it, given how they immediately back tracked on it and by S2 there was a shift back.

    I'm less annoyed that they look different, i'm more annoyed that they look different and they didn't utilize such a stark difference to tell some sort of story with it. I remember the lead up to DSC, thinking... hey, maybe these "Klingons" are some kind of ancient Klingon people who have come back to retake the Empire, or they are some like, client race of the Klingon Empire trying to usurp power from the Klingons, or some other kind of cool story... but... no. They just look like that now.

    It bugs me as well when you take Ash into account. Once we know he's Klingon, it was like "Oh, cool, they're going to acknowledge the augment virus and smooth head Klingons!"... nope, brutal one of a kind surgery. Damn it, Discovery. You created a great idea that had an in-built connection to established lore. Ash shouldn't be a one off, have the Klingons harness the affliction and use it to infiltrate the Federation. There's a whole damn army of Ash's out there, who eventually either get exposed or never quite make it into the Federation who end up being most commonly stationed near the border, because not only do they look like humans... they think like humans, giving the Klingons an edge when dealing with them.

    I have no issue with the less egregious "visual updates", like the Andorians. That was also an unnecessary update, but it's totally fine. I can buy DSC Andorians along with the rest of the Andorians we have seen. I'm in a weird place with the Tellarites... i'm ok with them too, even though look nothing like ENT Tellarites, but they look good. I'm more willing to be an apologist about stuff if it's good.
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    I'll never see how one Klingon change is worse than another. "Something happened!" Is satisfactory regardless of time frame, if used at all.

    Or, it's a double standard.
     
    Noname Given, Sci, JRob94 and 3 others like this.
  8. HotRod

    HotRod Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Location:
    Reaper Occupied Earth
    I don't know how many times it needs to be said, but I'll say it again...

    Star Trek is not a period piece. It is not a historical drama. It is under no obligation to be historically accurate. It is open for different artistic interpretations. It is a work of fiction, depicting an ever evolving fictional interpretation of our future.
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    AI Generated Madness
  10. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Wormhole
    I wonder if the Peanut Gallery would cry "Canon Violation" if they saw one of those productions of Shakespeare plays where the cast wears modern clothes, but the script is the exact same as the Bard wrote it?
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    AI Generated Madness
    [​IMG]
    Now I'm curious...
    Did the actors dress up in togas and such when performing Julius Caesar in Shakespeare's time?
     
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    Spock: It's possible.
     
    Commander Troi likes this.
  13. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    Mckellen's Richard III is my favorite Shakespeare adaptation of all time. the stuck jeep leading to "my kingdom for a horse" was inspired.
     
    Lord Hierarch, Sci, JRob94 and 2 others like this.
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
    I freaking LOVE Hamlet set in modern day New York City. The Denmark Corporation! Bill Murray doing Shakespeare! (He's actually really good as Polonius.) Osric as a fax machine! Kyle MacLachlan as Claudius! The awesomeness is off the charts. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

    And Romeo + Juliet is pretty damn cool as well. I love it when somebody says "Put up your swords!" and everybody whips out a gun - whose brand name is Sword. :lol:

    I mean, in what universe do scenes like this NOT kick ass:



    (fun fact about that one: When they were doing the scene where Romeo finds Juliet dead, Leonardo di Caprio's acting so moved Claire Danes that she kept tearing up. So she whacks Leo upside the head and said "Would you stop making me cry? I'm supposed to be dead here!" :guffaw: )

    I heard a rumor that Sir Ian and Sir Patrick were going to do a version of The Merchant of Venice set in modern day Vegas but I guess that's off the table now. :sigh:
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2024
    Lord Hierarch and Commander Troi like this.
  15. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Location:
    Noname Given
    Or that the female parts are played by actual females.* ;)

    (*-Those parts were played by boys in Shakespeare's time.)
     
    Sci, The Wormhole and Commander Troi like this.