"Lonely Among Us" - Engineer Singh
"Heart of Glory" - two security guards
"Skin Of Evil" - Tasha Yar
"Where Silence Has Lease" - Haskell
Then the 18 people in "Q Who". Except for Yar, all were killed aboard the ship.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x03 - "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
"Lonely Among Us" - Engineer Singh
"Heart of Glory" - two security guards
"Skin Of Evil" - Tasha Yar
"Where Silence Has Lease" - Haskell
Then the 18 people in "Q Who". Except for Yar, all were killed aboard the ship.
Going back a page or two but wasn’t Assistant Chief Engineer Singh in Lonely Among Us the first D crewman to die?
Only take his word, in the books, he's was still going, he just lied.
Who lied? Bones?
SPOCK: Your report, Doctor.
MCCOY: Oh, those tricorder readings on Mister Flint are finally correlated: He's dying. You see, Flint, in leaving Earth with all of its complex fields within which he was formed, sacrificed immortality. He'll live the remainder of a normal life span, then die.
SPOCK: On that day, I shall mourn. Does he know?
MCCOY: Yes, I told him myself. He intends to devote the remainder of his years and great abilities to the improvement of the human condition. And who knows what he might come up with.
SPOCK: Indeed.
Every streamer (including Netflix) can be shown to be 'bleeding money'. Yes, the media is currently claiming Netflix is the 'streaming success story' but go back just a couple of years and you'll see Netflix stories that show "Netflix has yet to make a profit, and they overspend on content creation...how long can they last???"
Um, I guess you didn't see the behind the scenes stuff regarding SNW S3E3 - yes, the car chase was filmed using the AR Wall to get some very nuce and big budget looking feature film level shots of them interacting in the car during the chase. the rst of it was filmed ON LOCATION in Toronto in real buidings and outside areas including a famous building a hotel, a store and a resturant. It was not 'another bottle show.'
As for completing and selling off S2 of ST: Prodigy, Paramount+ (and HBO MAX just did something similar a couple weeks earlier), is merging their Paramount and ShowTime streaming entities into one offering going forward - Paramount+. In prepping for that they looked at what each platform offers and culled shows that they feel don't fit with the new plan of what/how they want those content offerings to be perceived. And also to cut shows that are expensive and that they feel were underperforming in bringing in views.
ST: Prodigy was one such series that fit their 'cull' criteria and was 1 of 4 shows set in the Star Trek Franchise.
And as for their 'commitment' to teh Star Trek franchise, after Podigy S2 is sold, they still have (assuming the WGA and SAG/AFTRA strike situations are resolved):
- 1 Existing Star Trek Live Action show in full production: Strange New Worlds
- 1 New Star Trek Live Action show starting production: Star Fleet Academy
- 1 Existing Animated Star Trek show in full production: Lower Decks
- 1 Star Trek Franchise Streaming feature film in pre-production with an Oscar Winning Lead Actress Michelle Yeoh set to headline it: Star Trek: Section 31
^^^
That's still a lot of Star Trek Franchise content in the pipelline, so, no, Paramount+ isn't just abandoning ther Star Trek franchise.
And UNLIKE HBOMAX which took a COMPLETED DC franchise made for streaming Batgirl film and (by all accounts) finished it, screened it for the cast and crew then DESTROYED (yes, I'm sure copies exist somewhere, but this is what HOBMAX in claiming) all copies of it so they could get a large Tax Write Off for it...Paramount+ is COMPLETEING post production for all episodes of Prodigy S2, yes, so they can sell it, but they also could have decided to just sell what was done, and totally wash their hands of it; but they didn't.
But yeah, like Netflix when it was often near bankruptcy in the past, Paramount has a long term streaming strategy that they continue to pursue (which also includes their 100% free and Ad supported PLUTO TV streaming offering which they also use as a marketing tool by showing the first episode of many of their offerings there (for free) and offering past seasons of certain P+ shows on demand (again all for free) for a limited time when new seasons of those shows start streaming. Also, Yellowstone and it's spinoffs have been large hits for P+.
But, bottom line: No, I don't think they are going to be shutting down P+ or abandoning their current Star Trek Franchise offerings they are still producing anytime soon.
Last edited:
None of the other instances jeopardized a main's character's existence like this episode though.They did.
More evidence showing how no time travel story survives scrutiny. Take the rules/results as they are and “sit back and enjoy the ride” (Kirk in Metamorphosis).
It's definitively established at the end that La'an is descended from 2022 Khan, not 90s Khan, as she did not disappear upon return.
That means TOS Spock likely never had a crewmate called La'an Noonien Singh, because his timeline had no 2022 Khan for La'an to descend from. Meaning his adventures with Pike must have gone very differently than SNW shows due to La'an's key importance in SNW (the mind meld with Spock to defeat the Gorn, the distress call leading to Spock stealing the Enterprise to go to the mining planet, etc.)
Meaning TOS Spock never had a panic attack beaming TOS M'Benga and TOS Chapel from space, TOS M'Benga and TOS Chapel never went on a 'roid rage against Klingons, etc. All of these events happened differently in TOS timeline because there is no TOS La'an who could exist (her existence hinging on the existence of 2022 Khan).
Doesn’t matter. Time travel isn’t real. And Trek time travel is woefully inconsistent. Not at all worth the effort to reconcile. Either one enjoys the particular story or doesn’t.
It's a pity La'an didn't fade away due to time travel shenanigans. Really say something with the story, amiright?
It does actually harm the story the show overall is trying to tell. Last season, we're told that time travel to save Pike and some cadets would lead to disaster no matter what is done. This season, we're told that actually we can change literally a gazillion things more than Pike's accident and everything will be just fine.
If we wanted to further the story, La'an should learn about Pike's fate, ignore Temporal Investigations and tell Pike what happened, and then let all hell break loose because we now know that things CAN be changed. Or if Pike's fate is set in stone, delay the accident by 40 years so he's 90+ anyway because we know the same thing can be done to Khan with no consequences. Plus Pike knows exactly how the Romulan encounter should be handled.
It's the equivalent of Yoda saying don't use the dark side in ESB, then the ghost of Mace Windu showing up in ROTJ telling Luke how to use Force lightning to send Palpatine crashing out the Death Star 2 window.
Easily the worst episode of the show, and one of the worst episodes of NuTrek in general. It broke continuity so badly and blatantly that I wouldn't be surprised if it had started out as a Discovery script.
1/10
Well, atleast my theory that SNW (and probably DSC) are in a completely different timeline from TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/LD/PIC is basically canon at this point. It even gives a great explanation of why the Constitution Class is double the size it should be, why Spock apparently knows T'Pring when he obviously hadn't seen her since childhood in Amok Time, why Chapel is actually useful, etc.
It doesn't explain why the Gorn are Xenomorphs in their continuity, but I remember the Kelvinverse writers blamed changes of events that happened before the Kelvin disaster (like Chekov's different birthdate) as having been caused by basically a Butterfly effect of the time travel in ST09, so I guess in the SNW timeline the time travel butterfly effect turned the Gorn from humanoid lizard men into psycho killer lizard xenomorphs. That also explains why Kelvinverse McCoy had apparently delivered gorn children, and presumably not ones that burst out of someone's chest, because Kelvinverse Gorn, like Prime Gorn, aren't Xenomorphs.
Honestly, that almost justifies the episode, even though I still hate it. If they were more explicit on it being a different timeline I'd probably rank the episode a bit higher, although I'm sure they'll pretend SNW has a canon connection to later shows even though at this point they contradict basically every later show directly in at least one or two big ways.
1/10
Well, atleast my theory that SNW (and probably DSC) are in a completely different timeline from TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/LD/PIC is basically canon at this point. It even gives a great explanation of why the Constitution Class is double the size it should be, why Spock apparently knows T'Pring when he obviously hadn't seen her since childhood in Amok Time, why Chapel is actually useful, etc.
It doesn't explain why the Gorn are Xenomorphs in their continuity, but I remember the Kelvinverse writers blamed changes of events that happened before the Kelvin disaster (like Chekov's different birthdate) as having been caused by basically a Butterfly effect of the time travel in ST09, so I guess in the SNW timeline the time travel butterfly effect turned the Gorn from humanoid lizard men into psycho killer lizard xenomorphs. That also explains why Kelvinverse McCoy had apparently delivered gorn children, and presumably not ones that burst out of someone's chest, because Kelvinverse Gorn, like Prime Gorn, aren't Xenomorphs.
Honestly, that almost justifies the episode, even though I still hate it. If they were more explicit on it being a different timeline I'd probably rank the episode a bit higher, although I'm sure they'll pretend SNW has a canon connection to later shows even though at this point they contradict basically every later show directly in at least one or two big ways.
If the Gorn tried to make Gorn augments like the Klingons did, then delaying Khan's existence by 40 years might have changed something. Meaning either TOS Gorn or SNW Gorn are actually augmented explaining their differences from the other.
Since ENT was set in the old timeline possibly and due to the unlikelihood of ever seeing an augment virus Klingon again, maybe we can also say that the delay of the Eugenics Wars caused the Klingon augment virus to never happen, and since TOS is now officially established as being a timeline changed from SNW etc., we just pretend those Klingons always had ridges now (the way we'll now pretend Spock is saying 2032 to 2036 or whatever instead of 1992 to 1996) due to the changes in the Eugenics Wars timeframe eliminating the Klingon augment virus from ever happening in the new timeline.
Did you freak out the first time you saw the Klingons on Star Trek The Motion Picture?
I bet some people probably did actually.
Yeah, I agree that it was really great.
There's nothing constructive in complaining about continuity, sorry.
Yep. As I've written before, continuity is a virtue, but it's not the only virtue nor even the most important one. The modern obsession with "canon" often seems to be a case of putting the cart before the horse, in that preserving the sacred "canon" and making sure all the encyclopedia entries are 100% consistent has somehow become Job One, as though the world-building and timelines and "canon" are more important than all the other factors that go into presenting an engaging hour of TV: the acting, the dialogue, the music, the morality plays and messages, even the actual story and characters.
It's as though the backdrop is more important than the story being presented in the foreground. Like watching a new production of "Carmen" and fretting because the sets and costumes aren't what you're used to.
Bottom line: STAR TREK is theater, not an encyclopedia. So why not grant it a little artistic license when it comes to putting on a good show every week?
If a lot of the audience is more concerned about the canon than the story, it *might* have something to say about the quality and entertainment value of the story being told.
The Clone Wars tv show is very widely liked to the point that even hardcore Star Wars purists let slide that Grievous obviously never fought Kenobi before Episode 3 in the dialogue ("You fool, I have been trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku!"), yet fights him every other week in the Clone Wars show. Anakin's portrayal in the show also won praise from Hayden Christensen himself, again despite the show's showing Dooku and Anakin fighting every other week when dialogue in ROTS indicates they haven't fought in a long time ("My powers have doubled since the last time we met Count" when the current canon Star Wars timeline literally places the last time they met now as probably a few weeks before this line).
When LOTR was released, it was not in continuity with the Hobbit, the Hobbit originally having Gollum willingly give Bilbo the Ring. LOTR was so good that readers let it slide, otherwise if it were terrible Tolkien probably would've gotten angry letters complaining about the lack of continuity with the Hobbit.
Morrowind was such a hit that hardcore Elder Scrolls fans let it slide that it pretty much broke continuity with Daggerfall and Bethesda literally made up a time warp called a "Dragon Break" to explain the inconsistencies (I think I read on one of your old posts that you're not a gamer so this one might go over your head).
Currently people are not enjoying Netflix's Witcher and are more concerned with accuracy to the books because the new story the show is portraying has a lot of problems (even Sapkowski said it's not the best thing he ever saw, but also charitably said it's not the worst)
On the flip side, the Sonic the Hedgehog movie's new character Agent Stone was such a hit despite not being in the original games that fans immediately started demanding he be added to the games.
If the story and characters are good, the canon arguments will disappear. If they're not good, then the continuity issues become more glaring.
Basically, La'an's and Kirk's romance just wasn't believable. It may be due to the changing social atmosphere in the 2020s than say, 1960s "City on the Edge of Forever" but these types of romances are becoming increasingly unrealistic for a lot of the audience (we're lucky if we can even get a date, much less have a relationship progress so quickly) and thus it falls flat.
EDIT: In regards to "City", from a modern viewpoint Edith doesn't show any indication of romantic intentions from her side towards Kirk, and Kirk's claim of being "in love" with her today comes off as creepy, stalker-ish, and everyone would point out he "doesn't even really know her".
Last edited:
Still don't care for Clone Wars. It doesn't fit.
Hahaha...yeah, no, there were some hardcore fans who to this day loath the films.
I thought SNW was good?
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll
