Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x03 - "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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This was a great episode.
Well it's GR's 'shared universe - so they HAVE to fit Dylan Hunt's Genesis II/Planet Earth adventures in...
Brilliant episode. This show is kicking ass.
Scrutiny out.
Scrutiny out.
I feel the same way. You could have called them a new name besides the Gorn and it would have worked just as well. Or in this latest episode, have Kirk and Laana travel to the 60s if you just HAVE to see Khan as a boy. I understand that people who never saw TOS aren't going to care about these kind of things. And some people love this franchise so much that they'll swallow anything as long as the Star Trek name is on it. But it's a huge distraction for people who care about continuity and consistency. And it's all unnecessary.
No, it isn't. Speak for yourself.
I HATED that opening shot. Back to ENT's snowflake "stars" fluttering past the ship at impulse speeds... yuk.
I'm a sucker for time travel episodes. I'm especially a sucker for time travel episodes set in the real world modern day. So needless to say, I enjoyed this one. Some really funny gags and a lot of great pathos for La'An. Paul Wesley's Kirk still hasn't quite clicked for me, but that's fine. I do enjoy how much brotherly love between Sam and Jim the show has had, despite not having had them in a scene yet. Carol Kane is killing it as Pelia, who is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters. My only complaint is I didn't love how brisk the editing was for the first act. Felt a little sloppy to me, like there was a scene missing. Oh, well.
Also, after a TOS full of Kirk having his girl-of-the-week, it was nice to have an inversion where Kirk is the girl-of-the-week. 8/10.
Also, after a TOS full of Kirk having his girl-of-the-week, it was nice to have an inversion where Kirk is the girl-of-the-week. 8/10.
the episode literally addressed it. it would have been distracting if they hadn't, but they did. the timeline has shifted since Space Seed. maybe the version that happened in this revived timeline, Chekov was actually in the episode.
Nothing in art is necessary. But it's what they wanted to do.
What "changes" to the Gorn? Next to nothing was canonically established about the Gorn before "Momento Mori" aired last year. You can't "change" a blank slate.
I mean, I don't think most audience members get as distracted by it as us obsessives.
Most audience members are like, "Khan was from the past" and don't remember details. If they do, they probably just accept that first he was from the 90s and now he's not, and it's not a big deal to them.
Those of us who obsess over these details are a minority of the intended audience.
I mean, there is a reason. They wanted to explore the idea of what it's like to grow up as the descendant of a famously evil tyrant, and Khan is the best Star Trek version of that idea that fits for a Human character. And so if you then want to do an episode where La'an wrestles with that legacy while encountering the modern day, suddenly you as a writer need a reason for Khan to be a child in 2022 instead of 1972.
I see what you did there.
IIRC, it was actually Spock who said he ruled in the 1990s.
Doesn't seem conclusive to me, because we don't know which future they're from or any other details. We're just supposed to take one or two people's word for what happened?
That is a completely legitimate interpretation, but it is not the only legitimate interpretation. I would, for instance, argue that she wasn't as shocked about seeing Khan as she might otherwise have been because she was A) coping with the death of the man she had just fallen in love with, and B) had already listened to Sera's rants about the dates of events changing in spite of her (Sera's) attempts to stop them.
The very fact that the DTI agent recruited her instead of DTI just sending another agent with DNA altered to pass the 21st Century DNA detector strongly implies to me that this was a closed loop. Otherwise it would have made far more sense to use own of their own agents from whatever century they were from.
Again, I'm not convinced that killing or saving 2022-Khan was the branching point. I think it was preventing the destruction of Toronto.
It's set in 2022, not the 2030s.
Your interpretation of events is legitimate. Others are also legitimate. I'm sorry, but there's no one definitive narrative of events that can definitely preclude others based on the canonical evidence.
This to me is a conceptual weakness intrinsic to the La'an character. I can buy the idea that maybe she carries some level of guilt for what her ancestor did, but why the hell didn't her family change their names centuries ago? (Because, of course, the writers are using Augmentation as a metaphor for identities that are subjected to marginalization, and therefore La'an needs to have been subjected to marginalization or bigotry as a result of her heritage, so they need a plot device that would have caused people to become aware of her heritage, hence the need for her family to have stubbornly stuck with a name that nobody in real life would keep.)
I mean, part of the point of episodes like this is to see future characters in "our" world. That's why Star Trek's "X travels to the past" rarely features Our Heroes traveling to points that are their past but the audience's future, and why such a large percentage of time travel stories involve them traveling to the audience's "present" at the time of production or close to it: "Tomorrow is Yesterday," "Assignment: Earth," "Carpenter Street," "Future's End, Parts I & II," Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, PIC S2, etc. Stories like "Past Tense, Parts I & II" or Star Trek: First Contact, where the characters travel to a year in their past but the audience's future, is relatively uncommon.
In particular, having La'an and Jim trapped in 2022 serves the function of narrative efficiency. If they were trapped in, say, 1972, the episode would be obliged to address all sorts of things about life in the 1970s that no longer apply to its 2023 audience's lived experiences; it would also find its production costs much higher, since the crew would be obliged to spend money redressing the streets, adding in period vehicles and period costumes etc. So by bringing La'an and Jim into 2022 rather than 1972, you both save money and simplify the narrative since the audience intuitively understands and relates to the setting.
A project delayed, picked up by Adam who changed his surname slightly and moved to CanadaThe funding report file folder for "Project Khan" seen in Picard season 2 has a June 7, 1996 date on it.
But that leads to lots of issues with Picard being in the new timeline not the TOS/TNG one. It's a mess. Michael Keaton's spaghetti, for the three or four of us who saw The Flash.
Again, assuming that the timeline has been permanently altered and Khan is now definitively from the 2030s rather than the 1990s...
That doesn't make it a "new" timeline. It didn't become a "new" timeline when Sisko took Gabriel Bell's place in the Bell Riots of 2024 in "Past Tense." It didn't become a "new" timeline when the USS Voyager was sighted over the skies of Los Angeles in 1996 in "Future's End." It didn't become a "new" timeline when Mark Twain met the crew of the Enterprise-D in "Time's Arrow, Part II." It didn't become a "new" timeline when the descendants of the Defiant crew were erased from history in 2373 in "Children of Time." It didn't become a "new" timeline when all that crazy shit was happening in "Relativity." It didn't become a "new" timeline when Sisko and company inserted themselves into the events of "The Trouble with Tribbles" in "Trials and Tribble-ations."
It is well-established in ST that time travel doesn't always lead to a new timeline branching off. Sometimes it just leads to the existing timeline's past changing -- like a river whose tributary rejoins the stream instead of branching off into a separate river.
So the Prime Timeline's subjective past can have changed as a result of the Temporal Cold War of the 31st Century yet still have Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, Star Trek: The Original Series, Star Trek: The Next Generation, and Star Trek: Picard still all take place in the same timeline.
what do you think would happen if a french warship showed up unannounced in front of New York?
Although, adding to the mess of it all, the 21st century of Picard season 2 is already altered and NOT the original timeline from TNG, since that version of Guinan had never met Picard in the 19th century with Samuel Clemens because the future at that point was the Confederation version of Picard who never traveled back in time in the same way as he did in TNG.A project delayed, picked up by Adam who changed his surname slightly and moved to Canada
But that leads to lots of issues with Picard being in the new timeline not the TOS/TNG one. It's a mess. Michael Keaton's spaghetti, for the three or four of us who saw The Flash.
So it gets confusing as to whether by restoring a timeline where the Federation exists and the time travel to 19th century San Francisco happens does that alter the past, alter season 2, and create some paradoxical things.
Or is it just easier to say Q did it? Lol.
I mean, the United States and the French Republic are NATO allies, so probably not much.
Better comparison would be, say, if a South African or Pakistani warship showed up.
Let's just assume Q cleaned up any temporal paradoxes re: Guinan's memory.
Or maybe Guinan was just at a really dark point in her life that prevented her normal temporally transcendental memory from activating the way it normally would.
What about the examples you ignored because they didn't suit your idea?
Greedo shot first. Or did Han?
No, it is not. It may be a distraction to some who are obsessed with the most trivial details of continuity - though many are happy to handwoven away any such concerns with oldTrek.
Loving what they're doing with the Gorn and repairing Khan's story is way overdue.
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