Is that a whoosh or have you not been reading the papers lately?
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x03 - "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Is that a whoosh or have you not been reading the papers lately?
You can be both.
I saw "Space Seed" in the 70s. I don't need movies or TV shows from the 21st Century to tell me what I think of Khan.
Humor. Small joke. Human beings don't change.
Nice tidy episode, but felt like a mini movie. Tie ins with Pelia, alternate Kirk, Khan.
Chong is a great actor. I'm glad different episodes in the season gives more room for each character to develop more in depth.
Has a feel of The Voyage Home. Toronto, Poutine, not something you hear on Trek. It's usually just San Francisco and Iowa.
Pelia in Vermont is almost like Guinan with Data and Mark Twain in Time's Arrow episode.
The time police at the end, saying she must not share it with anyone, just a puts a nice closure on this isolated episode. La'An still has a crush on Kirk. Imagine that, Khan's descendant is in love with Krik.
Chong is a great actor. I'm glad different episodes in the season gives more room for each character to develop more in depth.
Has a feel of The Voyage Home. Toronto, Poutine, not something you hear on Trek. It's usually just San Francisco and Iowa.
Pelia in Vermont is almost like Guinan with Data and Mark Twain in Time's Arrow episode.
The time police at the end, saying she must not share it with anyone, just a puts a nice closure on this isolated episode. La'An still has a crush on Kirk. Imagine that, Khan's descendant is in love with Krik.
Screencaps gallery now online, which includes a really nice opening shot of the Enterprise...
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sc-SNW2-3.php
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sc-SNW2-3.php
Something the Temporal Starfleet needs to provide are counselors...especially for people from the past who went through the trauma La'an went through. She can't keep that bottled up, and asking her to do so is wrong. She needs some kind of therapeutic relief to help her cope, while at the same time keeping her promise. 29th-31st Starfleet owes her that at least.
Every episode that went back to the 1990's forward and we didn't see the Earth involved in a supposed World War brought on by Khan and his ilk.
Up to TNG's FIrst Contact.
Your denials don't change that fact.
What trauma?
It only comes up when dramatically necessary. Otherwise, walk it off. That's the Star Trek way.
I Feel For You
Good song, but being a good scotsman i just Khany Singh.
I will definitely get me coat now. lol
...and La'an's trauma was probably not something she would want to talk to anybody about anyway.
Falling in love with someone who (up till she called him) barely knows she exists.
Perhaps someday Pelia will ask.
I especially like the fact that they bothered to return to the Temporal Cold War and did more with it in this episode than in four seasons of ENT.
One thing that I think was a failure of ENT is the fact that they really did ignore all the implications of the Temporal Cold War and the writers clearly thought, “This is the original timeline” when the changes were there from the start. Without the TCW, there never would be a Klingon arriving at Broken Bow and arguably the entirety of the NX-01 launch would never have happened and Archer would be most famous as a test pilot. Perhaps explaining why Daniels thought Archer wasn’t the world’s most important man when he brought him out of the timeline. Then there’s the massive change of the Xindi War that absolutely was not part of the original timeline because that was the result of the Sphere Builders. You can go with the idea they were all predestination paradoxes but it seems like a waste.
I actually really like this episode suggesting that the Star Trek timeline is in-universe always changing and updating as well as shifting but keeping certain anchor-points. It actually fits with the “Year of Hell” discussion by its Nemo-figure. While Paris says that’s just him being delusional, the idea it has “inertia” and is self-correcting (either due to laws of physics or beings above time like the Q) isn’t unreasonable in Trek. Given the out of universe retcons and constant updates to visuals, technology, and prequels–I think it’s perfectly reasonable to canonize this temporal fluidity.
Plus this episode does something I love and makes worthwhile speculation points. “Were the Romulans behind Future GuyTM? If so, does this mean this woman and Future Guy are at different points? Future Guy eventually says the Federation must exist so does tampering like this eventually backfire on them and they backtrack?” Hell, maybe the Romulans discover without the Federation that they get conquered by the Dominion or without them to evacuate, they are exterminated by the Klingons after their sun explodes or assimilated by the Borg.
The fact I’m thinking of these things is a sign it’s a top tier episode.
One thing that I think was a failure of ENT is the fact that they really did ignore all the implications of the Temporal Cold War and the writers clearly thought, “This is the original timeline” when the changes were there from the start. Without the TCW, there never would be a Klingon arriving at Broken Bow and arguably the entirety of the NX-01 launch would never have happened and Archer would be most famous as a test pilot. Perhaps explaining why Daniels thought Archer wasn’t the world’s most important man when he brought him out of the timeline. Then there’s the massive change of the Xindi War that absolutely was not part of the original timeline because that was the result of the Sphere Builders. You can go with the idea they were all predestination paradoxes but it seems like a waste.
I actually really like this episode suggesting that the Star Trek timeline is in-universe always changing and updating as well as shifting but keeping certain anchor-points. It actually fits with the “Year of Hell” discussion by its Nemo-figure. While Paris says that’s just him being delusional, the idea it has “inertia” and is self-correcting (either due to laws of physics or beings above time like the Q) isn’t unreasonable in Trek. Given the out of universe retcons and constant updates to visuals, technology, and prequels–I think it’s perfectly reasonable to canonize this temporal fluidity.
Plus this episode does something I love and makes worthwhile speculation points. “Were the Romulans behind Future GuyTM? If so, does this mean this woman and Future Guy are at different points? Future Guy eventually says the Federation must exist so does tampering like this eventually backfire on them and they backtrack?” Hell, maybe the Romulans discover without the Federation that they get conquered by the Dominion or without them to evacuate, they are exterminated by the Klingons after their sun explodes or assimilated by the Borg.
The fact I’m thinking of these things is a sign it’s a top tier episode.
The problem back then was that that part of the storyline was forced upon the ENTERPRISE producers/writers, they then had to deal with something they didn't even want to begin with.
They had to completely refocus their original intentions to include that mess.
I don't think They ever really had their hearts in it.
I get why they didn’t, but the producers of the latest shows would have had a much easier time just making all this a separate timeline like they did with the Kelvin timeline. To try and shoehorn all the shows into the same timeline leads to all kinds of issues and whatnot. They could have simply said this is an offshoot from the ENT timeline because of the temporal war. Then they would have been free to mess with the timeline, characters and ships however they like.
Shouldn't the door (which unlocks from a hand-print scanner that reads DNA and accepts it if there's a trace connection) re-lock if no-one goes through it after a few seconds?
That was quite good.
A denobulan woo!
Another pike lite.. I know he has a newborn but ... Hes the lead character.. 3 lite episides? Missing him.
A denobulan woo!
Another pike lite.. I know he has a newborn but ... Hes the lead character.. 3 lite episides? Missing him.
they have done no such thing this is the prime timeline but all of the attempts to change time and times attempts to fix itself have made muddled thingsThe puns....I'm so proud....Linky
On a more serious matter: I'm more and more chill about this episode every time I think of it. Now that they've just come right out and admitted that SNW and its ilk take place in an alternate timeline, it's a lot easier to deal with.
And as @Christopher pointed out in his (excellent) DTI novels, events can't "un-happen". That's not how temporal mechanics works. No matter whether the TOS timeline has actually been overwritten - as opposed to branched off - it still happened. The events of THAT timeline were necessary for THIS one to occur. So there are no losers here.
Design flaw.
We saw a model of Khan's DY-100 class sleeper ship in Rain Robinson's lab in Voyager Future's End.
It's possible that the ship had been built and stolen by that point, it's also possibly a toy from a movie.
Kirk says Asia, and Archer says Africa.
America may not have been a front in the Eugenics War.
But Voyager's "Future's End" does allude to Khan's existence in the 1990s. Images and models of Khan's DY-100 class sleeper ship (the Botany Bay) appear in those episodes.
Beyond that, Khan explicitly says the Botany Bay was launched in 1996 in Wrath of Khan.
KHAN: Captain! Captain! Save your strength. These people have sworn to live and die at my command two hundred years before you were born. Do you mean he never told you the tale? To amuse your Captain? No? Never told you how the Enterprise picked up the Botany Bay, lost in space in the year nineteen hundred and ninety-six, myself and the ship's company in cryogenic freeze?
TERRELL: I've never even met Admiral Kirk.
KHAN: Admiral? Admiral! Admiral...
KHAN: Admiral? Admiral! Admiral...
There's not enough "maybe the records were lost" rationalization wiggle room in the world to make that fit with this.
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