About an hour and three minutes total.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x10 - "The Last Generation"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I really tried to be moved by this episode in same way that people were moved by the last episode. I wanted to let the reused music cues, the actual, final TNG reunion with crew have an impact on me... and it just didn't. I totally understand people who will love this and consider this the best Trek has done of the 5 modern shows, and I can respect that opinion, but I think this show has just reminded me that the version of me that lived in the 90s is probably gone... and I can't help but be sad about that.
Even the after credits sequence, which is a moment of pure fanservice (in a sea of fanservice) that apologizes and undoes Season 2 didn't make me go "Oh I wish there was more and Star Trek Legacy is greenlit!!!". It just made me glad it was finally over and I can think about all the other Trek that's coming this year.
There's just a lot about this writing that's kind of washed over me. Even something as small as cutting away before Seven gives her warp command just felt so tropey and calculated that I kind of felt nothing when it happened.
There are some nitpicks that don't really matter, because I don't think the writers are really that interested in what happens outside of the fact that they got the crew together, gave them their moment, and let the audience bask in the nostalgia one last time.
The fact that there's no reason why the destruction of Earth would lead to the downfall of the Federation (which is actually canon in Discovery due to the fact that the Federation continued even after Earth quit), how the Borg Queen ignores the fact that Janeway blew her up and is obsessed with Picard, how a small batch of Changelings from Section 31 managed to procreate and create thousands of themselves, the fact that every young person in Starfleet should have deep trauma from killing their own crews, the fact that they couldn't work out Whoopi Goldberg's schedule to have Guinan be at her own bar despite mentioning her, missing an opportunity to namedrop or show Wesley when Jack gets through Starfleet like a wunderkind, even Raffi and Seven's relationship being glossed over...
Like, what does it actually serve to pick these nits when that's clearly not the point of the show?
I guess my only other big criticism is that this probably would have been much better as a movie or a miniseries and maybe in that context I would have been lost in the nostalgia a lot more. But of course they were obligated to make a third season of Picard instead, so it is what it is.
Also, we got both a "You got this" and a "I got this". I know that's a pet peeve of some people, so I couldn't help but laugh when I heard these lines.
For me the episode is a 7... and basically sums up my feelings of the whole season. Literally average.
I got Geordi and Data reunited and I loved that, but I don't know if that elevates the rest of the series. If they had made a series about the two of them hanging out and solving engineering problems, then who knows.
Even the after credits sequence, which is a moment of pure fanservice (in a sea of fanservice) that apologizes and undoes Season 2 didn't make me go "Oh I wish there was more and Star Trek Legacy is greenlit!!!". It just made me glad it was finally over and I can think about all the other Trek that's coming this year.
There's just a lot about this writing that's kind of washed over me. Even something as small as cutting away before Seven gives her warp command just felt so tropey and calculated that I kind of felt nothing when it happened.
There are some nitpicks that don't really matter, because I don't think the writers are really that interested in what happens outside of the fact that they got the crew together, gave them their moment, and let the audience bask in the nostalgia one last time.
The fact that there's no reason why the destruction of Earth would lead to the downfall of the Federation (which is actually canon in Discovery due to the fact that the Federation continued even after Earth quit), how the Borg Queen ignores the fact that Janeway blew her up and is obsessed with Picard, how a small batch of Changelings from Section 31 managed to procreate and create thousands of themselves, the fact that every young person in Starfleet should have deep trauma from killing their own crews, the fact that they couldn't work out Whoopi Goldberg's schedule to have Guinan be at her own bar despite mentioning her, missing an opportunity to namedrop or show Wesley when Jack gets through Starfleet like a wunderkind, even Raffi and Seven's relationship being glossed over...
Like, what does it actually serve to pick these nits when that's clearly not the point of the show?
I guess my only other big criticism is that this probably would have been much better as a movie or a miniseries and maybe in that context I would have been lost in the nostalgia a lot more. But of course they were obligated to make a third season of Picard instead, so it is what it is.
Also, we got both a "You got this" and a "I got this". I know that's a pet peeve of some people, so I couldn't help but laugh when I heard these lines.
For me the episode is a 7... and basically sums up my feelings of the whole season. Literally average.
I got Geordi and Data reunited and I loved that, but I don't know if that elevates the rest of the series. If they had made a series about the two of them hanging out and solving engineering problems, then who knows.
There was a U.S.S. Chekov destroyed at the Battle of Wolf 359 so we do know Pavel's Starfleet career was important enough to history that a starship was eventually named for him.
Nice little nod to Anton Yelchin I thought.I was thinking about the Anton Chekov thing and then realised it can't be Pavel Chekov because he'd be long dead in the late twenty fourth century surely..?
JB
Perhaps it would be best to just enjoy it and not be so caught up in trying to over evaluate it.
Enjoy it for what it is, not for what you want it to be.
Did I say I wouldn't be awake for this? I lied.
Good finale. They tied everything up. I'll give it a 9.
It's been a blast discussing this with 95-99% of you. If you're a DSC Fan, I'll see you in the Disco Side in '24. If not, then hopefully we'll get do this again when Star Trek: Legacy is out. Not if. When.
There's more to say, but it's 3:40 AM as of this typing and in my time-zone. So it's been a pleasure. Have a good night, and we'll talk about this some more "tomorrow".
Good finale. They tied everything up. I'll give it a 9.
It's been a blast discussing this with 95-99% of you. If you're a DSC Fan, I'll see you in the Disco Side in '24. If not, then hopefully we'll get do this again when Star Trek: Legacy is out. Not if. When.
There's more to say, but it's 3:40 AM as of this typing and in my time-zone. So it's been a pleasure. Have a good night, and we'll talk about this some more "tomorrow".
Not really.
Yes indeed
I'd say it's a 20/10 character wise, but a 6/10 plot wise. I need a few rewatches to rate it, and maybe some plot clarification.
No one we already know dies. Glad to see a "happy ending".
The character stuff works really really well. More than sticks the landing. That alone should ensure several enjoyable rewatches before my P+ lapses in 3 weeks.
Are the Borg finally defeated... for real this time? Good lord, how many people in Starfleet died? Did the Spacedock blow up? What about the Changeling infiltration? Oh the new transporter protocols caught one... So those parts are incredibly frustrating. This needed 90 minutes, or 3 episodes to wrap up instead of 2. Hopefully there's at least some good deleted scenes?
The com badges go AGT-style gold before the time jump. Tuvok is safe... Shelby ahh who cares. Hell, who even cares about the fate of the Enterprise-F? But we do have a Chekov cameo for a full circle TOS presence, albeit his son(!).
I'm super glad Q's death was retconned. That must have been something that wasn't part of the original season 2 plan. John de Lancie must be game for Star Trek: Legacy. Don't give up!
It's so weird to think this season is... over. It was my main distraction for the last ten weeks. So much to sleep on at 1am.
No one we already know dies. Glad to see a "happy ending".
The character stuff works really really well. More than sticks the landing. That alone should ensure several enjoyable rewatches before my P+ lapses in 3 weeks.
Are the Borg finally defeated... for real this time? Good lord, how many people in Starfleet died? Did the Spacedock blow up? What about the Changeling infiltration? Oh the new transporter protocols caught one... So those parts are incredibly frustrating. This needed 90 minutes, or 3 episodes to wrap up instead of 2. Hopefully there's at least some good deleted scenes?
The com badges go AGT-style gold before the time jump. Tuvok is safe... Shelby ahh who cares. Hell, who even cares about the fate of the Enterprise-F? But we do have a Chekov cameo for a full circle TOS presence, albeit his son(!).
I'm super glad Q's death was retconned. That must have been something that wasn't part of the original season 2 plan. John de Lancie must be game for Star Trek: Legacy. Don't give up!
It's so weird to think this season is... over. It was my main distraction for the last ten weeks. So much to sleep on at 1am.
This was the status quo. The rest are the polarizing ones
I disagree. This shows its possible to have an in-continuity continuation of 24th century Star Trek under modern serialized storytelling. There's so much world building from 21 seasons of shows that could faithfully be followed up from.
I wish I could be moved by this to enjoy it on its own terms.
I have no reason to over analyze Prodigy, Lower Decks, or SNW... I can just watch them, be happy, and then move on.
I think the fact that this didn't work for me is making me question whether or not I was a TNG fan, because I feel like I should be moved by it the way others have been. I've seen every episode of TNG probably dozens of times in reruns, own the DVDs and the Blurays, and rewatched it on Netflix... I should be the perfect target for this, but for some reason I'm not.
Or it could be a literary reference.
The majority would appear to disagree.
I'm surprised to see people calling for one of the main cast members death. We've already had that, plenty of times, it's nice to see a happy ending. I agree Picard Season 3 wasn't the best Star Trek of the new era (SNW is pretty great) but I really loved it. I really do think it was a proper send up, and I'm excited to see what's next. I would especially love to see Worf in more stuff, the "Swords are fun" line had me laughing to tears. It's amazing how some of these actors can so easily return to a role they haven't played in 20 years, something we can't necessarily say the same of for others.
It was spelled without a second "h" so I'm going with it being named for Pavel.
You don’t have to justify or question why it didn’t click.
insurrection doesn’t click for me either, but I didn’t question my being a TNG fan
insurrection doesn’t click for me either, but I didn’t question my being a TNG fan
Welp, here we go...
- Hey! Chekov's kid did well for himself.
- Beverly, I like Earth too, but come on. The Federation is bigger than Earth.
- I really feel like Seven should be here doing the Borg tech talk.
- Yessss, smoldering angry Picard. Let's go!
- I see the planetary defenses have been beefed up since the Borg were last on Earth's doorstep. Good call.
- Appreciate Raffi getting to be the royal smart person.
- ...just tell Raffi to pilot the damn ship, ffs. Put the cook on comms or something.
- Worf knows what he said, Riker.
- The atmosphere on this dead cube is great. How do you make a Borg cube creepier? Make it a vault of despair and desperation on top of the existing nightmare fuel.
- No, sorry. I'm being pretty forgiving of the plot here, but the dude's in a whole new body. He's not still part Borg. Drop it.
- Awww, lookit the baby Locutus!
- ...annnnd OMFG I am not sleeping tonight, nope. Hi, Queenie. Good to see you.
- Man, these evolved Borg are annoyingly chatty. And...not that scary once you get past the horror make-up. More on the level of vengeful, cackling villain of the week stuff.
- Zombie Borg! OK, now we're back to the fun cheezy Trek nonsense.
- "Swords are fun." I will never, ever forgive this season for cheating me out of a Worf/Elnor teamup.
- Beverly is just getting her heart stomped on these last couple of episodes.
- NGL, I wasn't crazy about this end-run around assimilation in Prodigy, and I don't care for it any more here.
- No, not even with Collective hugs. And I love my Star Trek hugs.
- ...OK, yes, if you throw even more hugs at me, it does somehow even out. You guys don't play fair.
...look, I was aiming low, y'all didn't have to get down on my level.
- Love you, Worf. Raffi, your kid is shallow as hell, but I'm glad his willingness to mend bridges makes you happy.
- This season really should have been half the episodes.
- Gotta get one last use out of the Ten Forward set. Good bookend with the poker - none of us want the game to end.
- Adios, friends, you'll be missed. Until the spinoff, anyway.
- You know, kid, I have it on good authority that the best way to get rid of that pest is to pop him in the nose. Just sayin'.
So yeah. End of the season, end of the series, end of the TNG characters as a crew (for real this time!). On the plus side, plenty of feel-good moments, very good to see the old crew saddle up again. And this was a good time; these last two felt like a super-sized 90's movie (affectionate). On the downside, it feels like this season spent so much time "correcting" what the creatives didn't like about other people's work that they didn't bother forging a very strong identity of their own. I knew going in that this season was going to be more backwards-looking than forward-facing, but I was also really hoping for a launch point into another 25th century show that I could be really jazzed about. I've ended up with about 2/3rds of what I said I wanted to end up with going into this season - Captain Seven on her own ship, with Raffi along. And it's fine, it's good. But I wanted to be excited.
Part of that is the cast we're left with. I'm fully here for Seven and Raffi. Sydney's fine, but most of the bridge crew remain little more than names and faces. Jack Crusher...well, he feels like someone was trying to make a modern age Wesley Crusher and hit every single Gary Stu trope in the book. To paraphrase a poster on another platform, he got Rios' discount Han Solo bit, Soji's mystery box, Elnor's kung fu, and Agnes' too-close-for-comfort relationship with the Borg Queen, and managed to be less interesting than any of them. Oh yes, and he gets fast-tracked through the academy for reasons. He got more screentime than most of the TNG crew, and I am just supremely uninvested in what happens to him next.
Turning the Titan into the Enterprise just feels unnecessary. Again, if we're striking forward with a new show after this, let that show have its own identity. And keep it's own danged ship name.
I didn't have a bad time with this season. I'd happily watch another 25th century show with (most) of this cast. But I don't think I want the same creative team on it. Matalas and crew were, with all respect, playing on easy mode, being given the opportunity to do the big reunion/sendoff with this cast, and it was still just mostly OK. I'd like to see someone else get a crack at the next iteration of the show.
Anyway, final ranking for PIC:
S1
S3
S2
Lots of the same pacing issues as the prior seasons. Genuinely enjoyed parts of it, but there's also nothing so interesting that I'll likely ever watch it again.
- Hey! Chekov's kid did well for himself.
- Beverly, I like Earth too, but come on. The Federation is bigger than Earth.
- I really feel like Seven should be here doing the Borg tech talk.
- Yessss, smoldering angry Picard. Let's go!
- I see the planetary defenses have been beefed up since the Borg were last on Earth's doorstep. Good call.
- Appreciate Raffi getting to be the royal smart person.
- ...just tell Raffi to pilot the damn ship, ffs. Put the cook on comms or something.
- Worf knows what he said, Riker.
- The atmosphere on this dead cube is great. How do you make a Borg cube creepier? Make it a vault of despair and desperation on top of the existing nightmare fuel.
- No, sorry. I'm being pretty forgiving of the plot here, but the dude's in a whole new body. He's not still part Borg. Drop it.
- Awww, lookit the baby Locutus!
- ...annnnd OMFG I am not sleeping tonight, nope. Hi, Queenie. Good to see you.
- Man, these evolved Borg are annoyingly chatty. And...not that scary once you get past the horror make-up. More on the level of vengeful, cackling villain of the week stuff.
- Zombie Borg! OK, now we're back to the fun cheezy Trek nonsense.
- "Swords are fun." I will never, ever forgive this season for cheating me out of a Worf/Elnor teamup.
- Beverly is just getting her heart stomped on these last couple of episodes.
- NGL, I wasn't crazy about this end-run around assimilation in Prodigy, and I don't care for it any more here.
- No, not even with Collective hugs. And I love my Star Trek hugs.
- ...OK, yes, if you throw even more hugs at me, it does somehow even out. You guys don't play fair.
Maybe [Shaw's] appearance in ep10 will be a holo-Shaw telling Seven about that personnel report we've been seeing in the end credits all season. Blah blah, list all her faults and the reasons he doesn't like her blah blah but he ultimately gave her a mostly-glowing report. All the feel-good moments of character growth compressed into a convenient exposition dump.
...look, I was aiming low, y'all didn't have to get down on my level.
- Love you, Worf. Raffi, your kid is shallow as hell, but I'm glad his willingness to mend bridges makes you happy.
- This season really should have been half the episodes.
- Gotta get one last use out of the Ten Forward set. Good bookend with the poker - none of us want the game to end.
- Adios, friends, you'll be missed. Until the spinoff, anyway.
- You know, kid, I have it on good authority that the best way to get rid of that pest is to pop him in the nose. Just sayin'.
So yeah. End of the season, end of the series, end of the TNG characters as a crew (for real this time!). On the plus side, plenty of feel-good moments, very good to see the old crew saddle up again. And this was a good time; these last two felt like a super-sized 90's movie (affectionate). On the downside, it feels like this season spent so much time "correcting" what the creatives didn't like about other people's work that they didn't bother forging a very strong identity of their own. I knew going in that this season was going to be more backwards-looking than forward-facing, but I was also really hoping for a launch point into another 25th century show that I could be really jazzed about. I've ended up with about 2/3rds of what I said I wanted to end up with going into this season - Captain Seven on her own ship, with Raffi along. And it's fine, it's good. But I wanted to be excited.
Part of that is the cast we're left with. I'm fully here for Seven and Raffi. Sydney's fine, but most of the bridge crew remain little more than names and faces. Jack Crusher...well, he feels like someone was trying to make a modern age Wesley Crusher and hit every single Gary Stu trope in the book. To paraphrase a poster on another platform, he got Rios' discount Han Solo bit, Soji's mystery box, Elnor's kung fu, and Agnes' too-close-for-comfort relationship with the Borg Queen, and managed to be less interesting than any of them. Oh yes, and he gets fast-tracked through the academy for reasons. He got more screentime than most of the TNG crew, and I am just supremely uninvested in what happens to him next.
Turning the Titan into the Enterprise just feels unnecessary. Again, if we're striking forward with a new show after this, let that show have its own identity. And keep it's own danged ship name.
I didn't have a bad time with this season. I'd happily watch another 25th century show with (most) of this cast. But I don't think I want the same creative team on it. Matalas and crew were, with all respect, playing on easy mode, being given the opportunity to do the big reunion/sendoff with this cast, and it was still just mostly OK. I'd like to see someone else get a crack at the next iteration of the show.
Anyway, final ranking for PIC:
S1
S3
S2
Lots of the same pacing issues as the prior seasons. Genuinely enjoyed parts of it, but there's also nothing so interesting that I'll likely ever watch it again.
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