Strange New Worlds review **POSSIBLE SPOILERS**

[fireproof78]

First one was never stated. 2nd one I never understood why people assume that just because he was looking at one picture that specific time the camera includes the screen that it was the only photo he was looking at and that it meant that it was the last time they've meet. Personally even as kid rewatching it in the early 70's I just assumed he was looking a picture of her when they were originally bonded. Kind of like when I later would have an anniversary I would look at the wedding picture.

There is a huge, huge amount of things that fans take as fact that are entirely supposition fans have made over the decades, but aren't actually facts at all.

Quite right, which is why I find it so interesting when they come to light, because I'm sitting there going "I don't remember that" and come to find out it's from a franzine, or book or something that wasn't in the show.

Takes me a minute to sort it all out.

 

[NCC-73515]

First one was never stated. 2nd one I never understood why people assume that just because he was looking at one picture that specific time the camera includes the screen that it was the only photo he was looking at and that it meant that it was the last time they've meet. Personally even as kid rewatching it in the early 70's I just assumed he was looking a picture of her when they were originally bonded. Kind of like when I later would have an anniversary I would look at the wedding picture.

There is a huge, huge amount of things that fans take as fact that are entirely supposition fans have made over the decades, but aren't actually facts at all.

MA: The Gorn's first contact with the prime reality Federation took place in 2267, when the Gorn attacked, with impunity, the Federation colony and outpost on Cestus III.
The ship was unknown in Arena, and Kirk didn't know the Gorn

 

[Harpsichord]

The ship was unknown in Arena, and Kirk didn't know the Gorn

Eh, that doesn't mean it was first contact it just means the ship was unknown and Kirk didn't know what a Gorn looked like. It's the same type of handwaving they did for the Borg and Ferengi episodes on ENT. They'll never see the Gorn (except probably La'an in a flashback), the ship will look different than the one in Arena (so that one isn't in the database), and the Gorn won't bother trying to communicate (same as in Arena). EZ PZ.

If they're going to massage canon to fit an appearance from a known race in I'm inclined to be more forgiving when they bring back a criminally underused race like the Gorn rather than doing it so we can get round #20 with the Ferengi.

 

[Mudd]

MA: The Gorn's first contact with the prime reality Federation took place in 2267, when the Gorn attacked, with impunity, the Federation colony and outpost on Cestus III.
The ship was unknown in Arena, and Kirk didn't know the Gorn

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[Supervisor 194]

Kirk's dialogue indicates that he had never heard of the Gorn before, but that doesn't mean that Arena was first contact.

 

[mswood]

MA: The Gorn's first contact with the prime reality Federation took place in 2267, when the Gorn attacked, with impunity, the Federation colony and outpost on Cestus III.
The ship was unknown in Arena, and Kirk didn't know the Gorn

You assume that the Federation has ever record of every type of ship an alien race has? Because that's fairly irrational. We know they weren't familiar with that ship, and that Kirk had not seen one previously. Thats what we know. Now if could mean its first contact for the Federation, but it doesn't mean that's the only possible outcome.

Fans make a lot of assumption without actually looking at situation completely objectively.

 

[Supervisor 194]

Kirk's relevant dialogue: "I face the creature the Metrons called a Gorn."

 

[mswood]

And just so people understand, that means Kirk didn't know the name of the race of the being he fought. Not that no on tin the Federation had knowledge of them. We know the colony didn't see them. Destroyed at distance, and didn't converse with them. Again doesn't mean no one else in the Federation had ever had contact with them.

As for Kirk it just means that he wasn't visually familiar with the race. And that could mean no previous contact. Or it could mean that the information about the race wasn't widely disseminated through Starfleet, that a captain would recognize a race by sight.

 

[Supervisor 194]

Exactly so, to borrow a phrase

 

[CorporalCaptain]

And just so people understand, that means Kirk didn't know the name of the race of the being he fought. Not that no on tin the Federation had knowledge of them. We know the colony didn't see them. Destroyed at distance, and didn't converse with them. Again doesn't mean no one else in the Federation had ever had contact with them.

As for Kirk it just means that he wasn't visually familiar with the race. And that could mean no previous contact. Or it could mean that the information about the race wasn't widely disseminated through Starfleet, that a captain would recognize a race by sight.

Well, to take that a step further, according to "Arena," Cestus III might have had multiple interactions with the Gorn prior to the Gorn's attack on the base. From http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/19.htm:

KIRK: Can you tell me what happened?
MAN: Scanners reported a ship approaching. We get them now and then. They're all welcome to use our facilities. You know that.
KIRK: Yes, I know.
MAN: They came in space normal speed, using our regular approach route, but they knocked out our phaser batteries with their first salvo. From then on we were helpless. We weren't expecting anything! Why should we? We didn't have anything anyone would want.​

 

[NCC-73515]

You assume that the Federation has ever record of every type of ship an alien race has? Because that's fairly irrational. We know they weren't familiar with that ship, and that Kirk had not seen one previously. Thats what we know. Now if could mean its first contact for the Federation, but it doesn't mean that's the only possible outcome.

Fans make a lot of assumption without actually looking at situation completely objectively.

what's so irrational about assuming they have database entries of all kinds of ships, since we explicitly get statements that refer to precisely that? when spock says a ship configuration is totally new and unknown, do you think it's a new ship, or one that other federation ships have met before and it's just the enterprise computer that didn't get the latest updates?

 

[fireproof78]

what's so irrational about assuming they have database entries of all kinds of ships, since we explicitly get statements that refer to precisely that? when spock says a ship configuration is totally new and unknown, do you think it's a new ship, or one that other federation ships have met before and it's just the enterprise computer that didn't get the latest updates?

The second one.

 

[mswood]

what's so irrational about assuming they have database entries of all kinds of ships, since we explicitly get statements that refer to precisely that? when spock says a ship configuration is totally new and unknown, do you think it's a new ship, or one that other federation ships have met before and it's just the enterprise computer that didn't get the latest updates?

Sorry if I am not clear, my grammar and spelling are atrocious. Or if I misunderstood your original post. I assumed that you meant since they couldn't identify the ship, and that Kirk had to be told the race was a Gorn that it indicated that this must be a first contact with that race.

What I am saying is that someone is always going to have to be the first to see a new ships design and to be able to designate its point of origin (just like military's around the world do today). And that every new design that is encountered doesn't mean its from a race that the Federation hasn't had some level of contact with previously. Jus like a new sighting of a previously never seen vessel today doesn't mean its not from a government that the we have already encountered.

In Balance of Terror even near the Neutral Zone, it wasn't until the one officer informed Kirk about the imagery that historically been part of Romulan ships were they able to confirm that that ship (near Romulan Space) was actually a Romulan vessel. The people manning the monitoring posts couldn't identify them. Now once a ship has been identified I would naturally assume that information is transmitted to Starfleet and from there, makes its way through the fleet and into general Federation records.

The other part of the equation, is can a Starfleet Captain solely off of the visual appearance of an alien Identify every race that the Federation has ever come into contact with. Or is it something that they might normally need to confirm using a the records that would be on the ship? I would assume they know many, but I wouldn't assume they personally could identify everyone.

Thus I thank its absolutely possible that while this ship could be one never previously encountered by the Federation, and that the Federation could have had some contact with the Gorn but that it wasn't of a significant enough nature that Jim Kirk would be able to identify it by sight alone.

 

[NCC-73515]

Yes, now that makes sense. I guess we'll know when we see what the ship looks like, and how exactly they react

 

[cooleddie74]

Kirk's dialogue indicates that he had never heard of the Gorn before, but that doesn't mean that Arena was first contact.

Archer knew about the Gorn over a century before this so it's not as if the Hegemony was some unknown power in the 2250s.

 

[NCC-73515]

Archer knew about the Gorn over a century before this so it's not as if the Hegemony was some unknown power in the 2250s.

Prime Archer or Mirror Archer?

 

[cooleddie74]

Prime. "Bound," one of the final episodes set in 2155.

 

[NCC-73515]

HARRAD: When the situation calls for it. Piracy is a risky business. I prefer commerce. This (the blue drink) is from a planet in the Gorn Hegemony.
REED: The Gorn?
HARRAD: The less said about them, the better. But they do brew the finest Meridor in the five systems.
ARCHER: Delicious.

 

[Tuskin38]

Mirror Lorca had a Gorn skeleton in his lab, but according to BTS info (so obviously not canon, but food for thought), he got it on his own, and the Terrans knew more about the Gorn. Not sure when he could get the skeleton considering he kinda popped into our universe in the middle of a war, but hey.

 

[NCC-73515]

Mirror Lorca had a Gorn skeleton in his lab, but according to BTS info (so obviously not canon, but food for thought), he got it on his own, and the Terrans knew more about the Gorn. Not sure when he could get the skeleton considering he kinda popped into our universe in the middle of a war, but hey.

I took that as an interesting hint that they found this skeleton, but didn't know anything else about them