Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[Noname Given]

I always find it funny that the fans that follow what the producers say about the Kurtzman era live action shows being “prime” seem to get so angry at the people who consider the shows in an alternate universe.

like, why does anyone care so much how someone else enjoys the show. It always comes off to me as “the producers say it’s prime, so it’s prime. Now shut up about it or just don’t watch”.

What? Responding to someone who says: "It's obviously NOT prime universe..."

With: "Yes it is..the Production Team says so..."

On a BBS that discusses Star Trek is 'being angry'?

 

[Paul755]

As I like to joke, the current stuff is Prime, it's TOS that's not.

The Prime Timeline is one in which Spock has "secret" siblings and at some point, Spock looked like 58'year old Leonard Nimoy, one in which the "monster maroons" were worn, and one in which STAR TREK V, VI and TNG "Unification" definitely happened in.

TOS, as we experienced it audiovisually for decades, exists in a bubble outside - or perhaps within or underneath - the Prime Timeline. The uniforms, sets, and technical starship measurements that we've long accepted but were never established in on-screen dialogue are true here, but not necessarily "true" in Prime. The same events generally occurred (unless established otherwise in a current Prime Timeline production), but not the specific way we audiovisually perceived those events.

I could get all MAGoldingesque and posit a detailed system of "Parallels" style quantum realities, but I'll simplify my position thusly: For all practical purposes, the so-called Prime Timeline is all STAR TREK series and films (minus the Kelvin-Timeline ones, of course) since 1982's THE WRATH OF KHAN.

TOS, TAS, and arguably, TMP - what I used to refer to as the ur-Timeline, but instead now refer to as the Proto-Timeline - is, as I stated above, a bubble of its own, consisting of Star Trek as we understood it before various retcons (or "historical clarifications," if you will) introduced by subsequent series and films and temporal incursions. In the Proto-Timeline, Zephram Cochrane is from Alpha Centauri, not an Earthman who moved there later, and the Federation is "a thousand planets and growing" and Gamma Hydra IV is along the Romulan Neutral Zone (not Klingon) and it's the Romulans who don't take prisoners, whereas in the Prime Timeline post-1982, these things are not true . . . or true in the same way.

I might go with the “TOS is alt universe” if it weren’t for “Relics”, “Trials and Tribbleations” and “In a Mirror Darkly 1/2”.

they all show that in the timeline that TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT exist, that is what the Enterprise/Constitution Class looked like in the 2260’s. Inside and out. Yes, I know those were “very special episodes” but that doesn’t make them exist outside continuity or canon.

but as I say YMMV.

 

[Mudd]

Why does anyone get worked up about the fact that what can't happen and doesn't make sense is not happening?

 

[Donald G]

I might go with the “TOS is alt universe” if it weren’t for “Relics”, “Trials and Tribbleations” and “In a Mirror Darkly 1/2”.

they all show that in the timeline that TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT exist, that is what the Enterprise/Constitution Class looked like in the 2260’s. Inside and out. Yes, I know those were “very special episodes” but that doesn’t make them exist outside continuity or canon.

but as I say YMMV.

Ah, I just gave you the very simplified version.

The complex version is the the Prime Timeline was created out of the events of ST: First Contact. That created a divergence in the timestream and the streams rejoined to give us post-TMP visual continuity. "Relics" and "Trials and Tribulations" occurred in a 24th century before Picard and the Enterprise-E journeyed back to 2163, so their visualisations of 2260's uniforms and technology are TOS-style.

The Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly," I handwave by suggesting that Mirror-Archer encountered the one from the Proto-Timeline bubble, thrust back in time through the spatial interphase.

TL,DR: Wibbly-Wobbly, Timey-Wimey. Q sneezed. Roll with it.

It's all made up and make-believe, as are all fan-theories to account for and rationalize discrepancies.

After decades spent as a rigid canonista, excluding whatever didn't fit what TNG-era continuity police insisted counted as "real" Star Trek, I decided to embrace the concept of a Trek omniverse and try to enjoy each series, movie, and spinoff novel and comic line on its own merits. While I separate the various lines into their own streams and will still theorize a way to try to make things in the same stream fit, I now mostly consider myself, to coin a term, postcanonist. (It's like being a postmodernist, but with regards to being beholden to a strict adherence to the concept of canonicity.)

Anyway, this is all meant to be in good fun. IDIC and all that.

 

[Nerys Myk]

TMP works best as a prequel to TNG rather than a sequel to TOS or even a prequel to the rest of the TOS films. But I'm more inclined to treat everything from ENT to DISCO/SNW/TOS to STI - STVI to TNG/DS9/VOY to the TNG films to LDS/PIC/PRO to DISCO3+ as one sprawling story and ST09/ID/BEY as a sidequel.

 

[cooleddie74]

And that's what those three movies are. Spinoffs and sequels that exist in their own timeline and continuity. All series and movies coexist in a wider universe.

 

[Kzinti]

five years away from potentially steamrolling over TOS continuity

good!

 

[Tuskin38]

I am sorry but, epic fails here.

No, because it's not trying to recreate the TOS phaser yet.

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

All three Pikes are canon. Hunter and Mount are considered to be in the Prime timeline.

Is this consistent in every respect? No. Has Trek ever been? No.

In the past, they made far more effort at at least minimizing the discontinuities.

 

[cooleddie74]

[*Raises hand in Saavik*]

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

We know PIke's ultimate fate of disfigurement and paralysis. Does anyone suspect the producers might change that or ignore it if the series is a top streamer for many seasons? I feel they might be sorely tempted. Mount oozes charisma. I'm sure the transition to a new Captain will be well handled, and there won't be a dry eye in anyone's home when it happens.

The same people who are being trusted with this are the ones who told Doug Drexler that "no one will even notice" (direct quote" from a conversation with me by DM) the copypasta Starfleet from Picard season one. It's not that they are incompetent, it's that they just don't give a frak.

 

[shapeshifter]

No, because it's not trying to recreate the TOS phaser yet.

Yes, because I don't like it.

 

[GNDN18]

[*Raises hand in Saavik*]

I'm not sure that was the image you were reaching for.

Checks poster ID.

Never mind. Now I'm sure.

 

[Tuskin38]

it's that they just don't give a frak.

They care. But they also have budgets and time constraints.

Also have you seen Picard Season 2? The new showrunner and creative team have been kicking it out of the park. Doug Drexler is even working on it.

 

[fireproof78]

The same people who are being trusted with this are the ones who told Doug Drexler that "no one will even notice" (direct quote" from a conversation with me by DM) the copypasta Starfleet from Picard season one. It's not that they are incompetent, it's that they just don't give a frak.

Or, they care, but not about the same details as fans who have more hours of time to think about this.

Assuming apathy is a rather poor way to treat the production team, not that it should come as any surprise.

 

[plynch]

What is a copypasta starfleet? Whatever it is … I didn’t notice.

 

[fireproof78]

What is a copypasta starfleet? Whatever it is … I didn’t notice.

At the end of Picard Season 1 there was a Starfleet fleet which was made up of one ship, which was derisively called "copy paste" fleet. As far as fan complaints ago it was a minor nitpick but in line with fan expectations that certain ships appearing being a requirement. And of course fans had to do it better and edit in their own on Youtube.

My only real reaction is

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Hey I saw that fan remake video! You're right, it was actually a lot better.

 

[fireproof78]

Hey I saw that fan remake video! You're right, it was actually a lot better.

I did not find it better.

 

[plynch]

Can someone link me to a picture of the fleet? I saw the ep, but you’re making me think of the four exact Connies in TOS Ultimate Computer original fx.

Edit. Found it. Yeah, I never noticed, but it is typical effects. Dark, and a big vomit of things so your eye isn’t led to the main point. So it goes.