Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x13 - "Coming Home"

[Sci]

Except that episode wasn't really about believing men or women, it was about following the evidence and doing investigative due diligence before making public accusations.

While I'm sure you as an individual mean that earnestly, the simple fact of the matter is that the vast majority of rapes go unreported, and those that do get reported mostly go unprosecuted, and most rapists who are prosecuted are acquitted. The system is fundamentally designed to let rapists go in the vast majority of cases, and the vast majority of victims of rape are not believed by the justice system or law enforcement when they try to find help. And episodes like this, which dramatize the extremely rare minority of cases in which rape accusations are false, create in the public a false impression that untrue allegations of rape are common, which they are not. The episode was fundamentally about the idea that you can't believe women.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Is Tarka's paradise dimension the Nexus from Generations?

Could be. Could be.

 

[jackoverfull]

Tarka is discount Soran, so that should be discount Nexus.

 

[cooleddie74]

Great Valexus.

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

When I first read about an Abrams cameo I thought someone had accidentally let JJ in....

 

[Sci]

Tarka is discount Soran, so that should be discount Nexus.

Nah. Tarka is a much better version of Soran.

 

[jackoverfull]

Nah. Tarka is a much better version of Soran.

beg to differ. His motivations are dubious at best and his convictions change from episode to episode. He is presented as a genius but consistently act stupidly.

 

[Lord Garth]

Sometimes a cameo is just a cameo and a stunt casting is just a stunt casting.

This.

Stacey Abrams is a politician, not an actor (well, all politicians are actors, but that's not what I mean... ). You can't write a storyline around whatever character she'd play because she'd be too busy to take the time to learn the lines. And, even if she did, she'd likely stumble as an inexperienced actor actor. So she gets a quick cameo, says a line, the end.

She'd need a teleprompter for any more dialogue. That's how they're all used to reading scripts.

But, as far as politicians go, I'd have voted for her if I lived in Georgia. (This is the part where someone goes, "Why am I not surprised?") So there you have it. I'm glad she got to be on DSC.

 

[Jax]

Just watched the finale and this was potentially the best episode of the show. It was one of the most Trek like episodes it ever produced full of action, great dialogue and moving scenes. The First contact scene was superb and twists & turns kept you guessing for the outcome.

The season got much better as it went and the main arc was better than what we got in season 3 with the burn. My only real gripe is I don't buy how such an advance race was unaware of sentient life in our galaxy - no matter how advance their tech alone should of helped them in that regards.

 

[Sci]

My only real gripe is I don't buy how such an advance race was unaware of sentient life in our galaxy - no matter how advance their tech alone should of helped them in that regards.

I don't think it was the tech per se. I think it's just that humanoid life is so fundamentally different from the Ten-C that they couldn't recognize their sentience without direct, assertive interaction from humanoids. Like the equivalent of how you wouldn't necessarily recognize sentient ants as being sentient unless they started going up to you doing something to get your attending and demonstrate sentience like spelling out simple words with their bodies. The ants could be totally sentient and do things like build simple structures and such, but their life cycles are so different from ours that even if they were, you and I probably wouldn't recognize it absent extraordinary effort from the ants.

 

[Sci]

Side note: that was something I really appreciated about DIS S4 -- the idea that cultures being so different can be a source of legitimate pain and conflict without it being borne out of malice, and the idea that that difference can be bridged and that conflict can be resolved through good-faith efforts at empathy and communication. I think that's a message the world needs to hear more of these days.

 

[jackoverfull]

The idea was ok, the realisation was awful. The idea that they knew it already before making first contact was absurd.

 

[TedShatner10]

The execution was alright, for the most part, and S4 felt different in a good way and Species 10C vaguely remind of Iain M. Banks' Dweller species.

And why would Species 10C be Type 2 on Kardeshev scale? They're more typically Type 3 (not unlike the Metrons, V'Ger, the Caretaker, and the Whale Probe) and are implied of being extra/inter galactic and being very godlike, while still confined within technological and biological material shells (they've hit the limits of what they can do in the confines of the universe and have the potential to ascend).

 

[Vale]

The execution was alright, for the most part, and S4 felt different in a good way and Species 10C vaguely remind of Iain M. Banks' Dweller species.

And why would Species 10C be Type 2 on Kardeshev scale? They're more typically Type 3 (not unlike the Metrons, V'Ger, the Caretaker, and the Whale Probe) and are implied of being extra/inter galactic and being very godlike, while still confined within technological and biological material shells (they've hit the limits of what they can do in the confines of the universe and have the potential to ascend).

That's not what Type III on the Kardashev scale means. A Type III civilisation isn't just "extragalactic", it controls all resources in one galaxy. All matter, all energy. It would be impossible for a Type III civilisation to be hidden in a galaxy; it would be the galaxy. None of those examples are Type IIIs. Star Trek has no Type III civilisations.

 

[TedShatner10]

That's not what Type III on the Kardashev scale means. A Type III civilisation isn't just "extragalactic", it controls all resources in one galaxy. All matter, all energy. It would be impossible for a Type III civilisation to be hidden in a galaxy; it would be the galaxy. None of those examples are Type IIIs. Star Trek has no Type III civilisations.

Seeing Species 10C's capabilities and scope, they could draw on all the power and resources within the Milky Way with more typical Type 2 civs like the UFP not doing anything meaningful to stop them (and that Starfleet scientist dude said they could've been higher than Type 2).

 

[Vale]

Seeing Species 10C's capabilities and scope, they could draw on all the power and resources within the Milky Way with more typical Type 2 civs like the UFP not doing anything meaningful to stop them (and that Starfleet scientist dude said they could've been higher than Type 2).

With respect, the Starfleet "scientist dude" (or more accurately the writers) don't know what they're talking about. The Federation isn't a Type II civilisation. It's most likely something like a 1.5, in much the same way as we're a 0.5 today. A Type II civilisation can almost by definition build a Dyson sphere, which we know is beyond the Federation. The closest thing we've ever seen to a Type II civilisation in Star Trek is the Borg. Again, it's not just "interplanetary/interstellar/intergalactic" – it means "full control of all matter and energy of a planet/star/galaxy". If the 10C were a Type III, they'd be able to mine the entire galaxy at once. It'd be virtually impossible to portray a Type III because such a civilisation would be so far beyond our ability to comprehend it'd be almost impossible to write, much less show. Think of Stephen Baxter's Xeelee Sequence of novels, which is probably the best depiction of such a civilisation in fiction that I can think of.

 

[gblews]

As I, and others, have already said, the clear subtext was that Paradise expects those viewers who recognize Abrams to understand that by featuring Abrams, Star Trek: Discovery as a narrative is endorsing the political project for which she has become most well-known (leading the opposition to Georgia's racist voter suppression laws). The subtext, therefore, is an endorsement of the idea of multi-racial democracy and of progressive politics more broadly. It relates to the events of Star Trek: Discovery by implying that progressive politics is the real-world embodiment of the themes the show had just espoused -- diplomacy over violence, diversity over homogeneity, democracy over autocracy, peace over war. The episode is designed to work fine if you don't recognize her, but recognizing her adds a layer of meaning to the text.

I agree wholeheartedly, and will go you one better; Because Stacey was cast as the “newly elected” President of United Earth, I wouldn’t completely out it being a subtle endorsement of Sracey for POTUS at some point. She has shown that she may have presidential aspirations. Love the ballsiness of the casting.

BTW, Abrams is a big nerd. I once saw her knee deep in a Twitter debate on the Spike v Angel issue. As I recall, she was team Spike.

Loved the finale. DSC went full Trek this season.

 

[StarMan]

The idea was ok, the realisation was awful. The idea that they knew it already before making first contact was absurd.

Ah yes - the realisation the Universal Translator likely wouldn't work in spite of it's astonishing track record at deciphering new alien languages with only a few words input (save for that damned Darmok and Jilad at Tinagra), when they hadn't even attempted a how-do-you-do? Back the front writing.

 

[jackoverfull]

And to add insult to the injury in the last episode the UT suddenly goes from barely being able to translate simple concepts to seamlessly deliver speeches.

 

[cooleddie74]

Ah, the power of plot.

Although at this point with the show safely relocated to the year 3190 I'm willing to let the writers and the in-universe technology get away with more and not be as happy to jump all over it. Still annoying but no longer headdesk annoying.