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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x13 - "Coming Home"

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It wasn't even subtext and has nothing got to do with the examples you gave. Immigrant Song is about people who "come from the land of the ice and snow" and were about to be immigrants so there was a smart not between screen and song. What was the connection between Abrams and what was happening in Discovery?
Sometimes a cameo is just a cameo and a stunt casting is just a stunt casting.

Unless, for the sake of fairness, we also start complaining about King Abdullah II of Jordan appearing as a random Starfleet officer instead of royalty, or Yelgrun being basically the polar opposite of what you would expect upon seeing Iggy Pop's name attached to him.
 
I have accused them of being bad writers for a vast number of reasons over the years

We are not talking about that. We're talking about the post you made where you claimed it was bad writing to cast a U.S. politician to endorse the idea that fighting racist voter suppression laws is a good thing via subtext.

But this one thing is one of the results of that writing. Nuance replaced by what was essentially a picture of someone flashing on screen.

Pure nonsense. There was a clear subtext to Abrams's appearance to anyone who is familiar with U.S. politics. You were not, and therefore you did not pick up on the subtext. You missed a piece of nuance. The fact you didn't understand the subtext of the scene does not make it bad writing.

It wasn't even subtext

It was absolutely subtext, because the framing of Abrams (and the subsequent publicity about her cameo) makes it clear that the producers intended for the audience to understand that they were endorsing her politics if the audience recognized her, yet this was done without spelling it out explicitly. This is literally Subtext 101.

and has nothing got to do with the examples you gave. Immigrant Song is about people who "come from the land of the ice and snow" and were about to be immigrants

And here we have another example of you not understanding subtext. "Immigrant Song" is about Viking colonialism. Thor: Ragnarok is about Asgardian colonialism coming home to roost in the form of their old tool of colonial oppression, Hela, returning to destroy the Asgardian state and murder its people; like many wealthy imperialist nations in real life, Asgard has ignored or forgotten its violent past -- Hela exposes how her campaign of violence and conquest was literally covered up by Odin, and now she is treating Asgard as Asgard once used her to treat its colonial subjects. The film ends with the Asgardians becoming refugees just as colonialism itself often creates refugees.

There is an clear irony in Led Zepplin as creators choosing to juxtapose a song that is textually about colonizers with the title "Immigrant Song," and there is a further irony in juxtaposing a depiction of former colonizers becoming refugees with said song. The subtext is very clear: Colonial violence will eventually come home to roost for the colonizers. Heroism lies in, like Thor, learning to accept the past as it truly was and take responsibility for dismantling colonialist power structures (symbolized by him literally unleashing Ragnarok and destroying the Asgardian planetoid).

What was the connection between Abrams and what was happening in Discovery?

As I, and others, have already said, the clear subtext was that Paradise expects those viewers who recognize Abrams to understand that by featuring Abrams, Star Trek: Discovery as a narrative is endorsing the political project for which she has become most well-known (leading the opposition to Georgia's racist voter suppression laws). The subtext, therefore, is an endorsement of the idea of multi-racial democracy and of progressive politics more broadly. It relates to the events of Star Trek: Discovery by implying that progressive politics is the real-world embodiment of the themes the show had just espoused -- diplomacy over violence, diversity over homogeneity, democracy over autocracy, peace over war. The episode is designed to work fine if you don't recognize her, but recognizing her adds a layer of meaning to the text.
 
I think you have right there outlined how the rebuilding the Federation arc unfolded. Star Trek: Discovery, like every Star Trek series before it, is primarily an action/adventure show about the grunts out in the field; it is not The West Wing or The Crown -- it's not a show primarily about palace intrigue. It was never going to just have episode after episode of people in rooms talking about the political and economic conditions under which Federation reunification would happen. (The closest we got to that was "All is Possible.") So it makes perfect sense that the rebuilding the UFP arc would play out as a season-long subplot against the backdrop of the DMA crisis.
Yeah, I think you (and @Sakonna) are right in that this is a sub-plot that is occurring mainly in the background, much like how the Klingon War was the "main story" of season 1. Season 1's story really is the redemption of Michael and the war just takes place off screen. Season 4's story really is the DMA and the rebuilding of the Federation just happens offscreen (for the most part). I think Season 4 works better at this in that they don't present the rebuilding storyline as the focus, whereas in season 1 they kept acting like the war was driving the story, but it never really felt like that. So I guess they are doing a little better this time around?
 
Frankly, most every time someone uses the complaint "bad writing" these days, it generally translates into "they didn't do what I wanted them to do". It makes it hard to take the complaint when used seriously.
Just to use the example we are talking about. TNG or one of the older shows would have given you a well crafted episode about voter suppression. Disco just throws a face at you.

That's the difference between good and bad writers
 
Star Trek: Discovery as a narrative is endorsing the political project for which she has become most well-known (leading the opposition to Georgia's racist voter suppression laws). The subtext, therefore, is an endorsement of the idea of multi-racial democracy and of progressive politics more broadly. It relates to the events of Star Trek: Discovery by implying that progressive politics is the real-world embodiment of the themes the show had just espoused -- diplomacy over violence, diversity over homogeneity, democracy over autocracy, peace over war. The episode is designed to work fine if you don't recognize her, but recognizing her adds a layer of meaning to the text.
You are seriously over exaggerating the narrative of Discovery. When have they ever covered "multi-racial democracy and of progressive politics".
I also know who she is and what she done. I think her work is amazing but also don't like her cameo on Discovery
 
Potentially. That explains warp 13 in AGT.
However, in practice it would still only be marginally faster than warp 9.95 - the limit is reached when approaching warp 10/transwarp.
Sure but the speeds increase exceptionally at that point. Warp 9.999 is incredibly faster than warp 9.99
 
Sometimes a cameo is just a cameo and a stunt casting is just a stunt casting.

Unless, for the sake of fairness, we also start complaining about King Abdullah II of Jordan appearing as a random Starfleet officer instead of royalty, or Yelgrun being basically the polar opposite of what you would expect upon seeing Iggy Pop's name attached to him.
Iggy pop is a musician and actor I've no problem there.
I never knew about Abdullahs participation untill recently and no I don't think it should have happened.
 
Just to use the example we are talking about. TNG or one of the older shows would have given you a well crafted episode about voter suppression. Disco just throws a face at you.

That's the difference between good and bad writers
Sorry, but this would only work for me if it was actually the decision of the writers to have an Abrams cameo. I don't think they actually write the script like "X walks out and we see she's Y!!!!"
 
Praying you're wrong. I am so done with that ship, it became such a preposterous writing contrivance.

Disco really needs it's own Delta Flyer, their own dedicated shuttle that is designed to address their changed circumstances. Something that's pure 32nd century tech. I'm ready for that new set as well.

Isn't that basically what Book's ship was...? Or is it more like Neelix's ship?
 
Isn't that basically what Book's ship was...? Or is it more like Neelix's ship?

I wouldn't call Book's ship an equivalent of Neelix's old rustbucket – it seems to be crazy advanced even by the standards of the 32nd century, what with its morphing, multiple semi-independent components, and multiple FTL drive technologies (warp, quantum slipstream, tachyon solar sails, even spore drive for a brief period). Hell, it fit in the Discovery's shuttlebay and yet was still powerful enough to tractor the Discovery out of a crystalline formation that the Discovery itself couldn't break free from under its own steam.
 
Isn't that basically what Book's ship was...? Or is it more like Neelix's ship?

My problem was more specifically that Discovery had no claim to Book or his ship, it was free to come and go as Book pleased.

Since they encountered so many situations that could only be solved with Book's ship, it made our hero ship feel unprepared. Good thing Book happened to be around for this or they would have been SOL! If a small morphing ship was as absolutely essential for getting anything done as it was shown to be, Starfleet should have given Discovery one that they control.
 
Pure nonsense. There was a clear subtext to Abrams's appearance to anyone who is familiar with U.S. politics. You were not, and therefore you did not pick up on the subtext. You missed a piece of nuance. The fact you didn't understand the subtext of the scene does not make it bad writing.
As someone who is familiar with US politics, no there wasn't.

Stacey Abrams is pretty much an unknown outside of certain rather small circles.
 
Just to use the example we are talking about. TNG or one of the older shows would have given you a well crafted episode about voter suppression. Disco just throws a face at you.

That's the difference between good and bad writers

Okay, Garth Marenghi.

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You are seriously over exaggerating the narrative of Discovery. When have they ever covered "multi-racial democracy and of progressive politics".

As I said, by featuring a politician in a celebratory role who famously stands for multi-racial democracy and progressive politics, the show is itself linking her politics with its narrative. This is how subtext works.
 
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