I liked last week's better.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x05 - "Die Trying"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
... what is up with Georgiou?
Dead and replaced.
exactly because they are strangers in a strange land. The most logical thing would be to bring them up to speed and break them up, assigning them duties to other ships, where they can be useful while starting to fit in in the new century. Also, they should start training others to operate discovery and the spore drive, and also duplicate it.
By the way, I’m surprised nobody mentioned that making a new human navigator is totally possible (or I forgot something?), just outlawed by 23rd century federation law.
It seems like I need to say this every time, but visually - Discovery is unmatched; it’s a joy to watch each week.
What an opening scene. Discovery arrives at what's left of the "The Federation" and it was nice to see joy and awe in the crew's eyes as they make their way through a distortion field and take in the 32nd-century Federation/Starfleet landscape. We see the USS VOYAGER (NCC-74656-J). It appears now, that the Enterprise is not the only Star Ship to have earned alphanumeric designations. I guess Janeway and crew were thought of with reverence. I also (on second viewing) caught the USS Nog, an obvious tribute to Aron Eisenberg who sadly passed away last year. Quite nice. Suru orders the hail "USS Discovery reporting for duty"!
Sensors now have the ability to differentiate the symbiote from the host. Saru, Burnham and "Tal" are requested to beam onto the space station. They beam over, are in awe of their surroundings, and meet ADM Charles Vance, head of the Federation. We learn that Kaminar ended up joining the federation which makes Saru very proud. The ADM, rightly so, is very suspicious of Discovery and her arrival and after speaking with Adira, orders her to medical for a "diagnostic". An interesting term for a medical exam, I'm sure Reno would approve. The ADM eagerly awaits a debrief of Saru and Burnham. They tell their story and we learn that today’s Federation consists of 38 member planets, down from 350 at its peak. The ADM is convinced they are not lying to him, but there is no historical record of a "Red Angel" or "Control" so he caught between a rock and a hard place. He explains the "Temporal Accords" (a nod to 'Enterprise') and that time travel now is illegal and of course Discovery is guilty. He cannot risk trusting them without proof. So, he "requisitions" Discovery and orders her crew debriefed for reassignment. BAM, Saru, and Burnham are shocked. (and so was I)
The crew debriefings begin and they are being conducted by holograms. All quite humorous, but the best one was Georgiou’s. She is conversing with 2 holograms and she quickly overloads them by forcing them to shut their programs down. Then she enters into conversation with what appears to be a 32nd century Section 31 agent (Intel Department maybe?) played wonderfully by David Cronenberg and finally, she has met a mental equal or at least someone that intrigues her. He talked to her about 5 April 2063 (Terran holy day), where Terrans met Vulcans for the first time and they killed all the Vulcan's onboard. (referencing IAMD from Enterprise) We learn that the Terran Empire has crumbled after she left and that no one in the last 500 years has traversed between the mirror U and our U (universes drifting apart since she left) and we see Georgiou is visibly shocked by learning this. He decerns that the only reason she is here in this universe is that she must care for someone on the ship. All without asking her a question. At the end of this episode, Michael walks up on Georgiou and she's just standing there in a daze... she finally snaps out of it as Michael asks her if she is alright and she walks off without answering. It appears that Georgiou has always been under the impression she would return to her empire. Looks like that’s not going to happen and she is torn up about it. More to follow for sure and I hope it includes the unnamed character played by David Cronenberg. He was pretty awesome here. I’m still wondering what’s up with his glasses.
Back on Discovery, Michael is explaining to Saru that the ADM just doesn't understand and that Saru should be fighting for them. She goes on about how they can use Discovery to help the Keelu(?) and that would be enough proof for the ADM to let them stay together. Saru quite nicely puts Burnham in her place and tells her they will follow the correct procedures.
Saru and Michael join in conversation with the ADM once again and they figure out the only way to help the Keelu is to obtain a plant seed from a world that is no longer fertile in order to create an antidote. Michael remembers a seed ship, the ADM confirms its existence and of course, Discovery is the only ship that can get there and back in time. Michael can't explain this to the ADM without being the usual “Michael Burnham smart-ass” so the ADM again puts her in her place. Saru sees this as a way to solve two problems, help the Keelu and earn trust. Saru will stay behind and Michael will head up the mission - with Federation Security on board of course.
Discovery drops into the coordinates of the TeeKov and there is a huge ion storm that is masking the ship. They will have to enter and tractor the ship out. They do this, but Detmer is once again freezing up. Michael figures out a Barzan family was keeping watch (4-month rotation?) over the seed vault. Now we know that the Barzan also joined the Federation so Michael orders CDR Nhan to join the away crew. Michael, Hugh, and Nhan beam over. They walk up to a running hologram of a family humming a tune, the same tune that Adira was playing on the cello. (All Along the Watchtower starts playing in my head) Reno, Stamets, and Tilly work together and figures out that a CME hit the ship and killed the family and because the dad was beaming into the seed vault he didn't die because of quantum blah blah... they figure out how to save him and he helps the away team gain access to the required seeds. It needs to be mentioned again that these scenes are bolstered because Culber is in them. He's frakin awesome. I'm starting to think of him like Garak in DS9. If he's involved in the episode, it is better. Culber reveals that the husband will die of radiation poisoning if he stays. Of course, he doesn't want to leave his family. Michael convinces him to leave and as probably expected, Nhan remains behind to finish the Barzan responsibility of watching over the seeds and ensuring the dead wife and two children receive a proper burial. You can say this isn't "earned" I guess, but it's a fitting closure to this character and in character, I think. She did remain on Discovery to replace Airium out of a sense of duty. One wonders why Discovery couldn't have just jumped back and dropped the husband off after he healed though.
Couple notes… I really enjoyed Stamets, Reno, and Tilly working together, banter and all. I felt the Nhan character was just a tag-a-long so this ending to the character was a good one. Michael just can’t help being herself. It was nice that the ADM and Saru put her in her place. When Suru described Earth's renaissance painter Giotto, it harkened back to Archer’s story of the gazelle to the Vulcan’s and I thought showed great leadership and thoughtfulness when speaking with ADM Trance. But when ADM Trance stated that Detmer’s “readings” were baseline, Burnham responded with “we all put our lives in Detmer’s hands and would do it again”. That’s not the point and reveals a lack of leadership and understanding. Stating something along the lines of “we are aware of that and we will help her heal” would have been more appropriate and in my eyes depicts why she isn’t ready for the Captain’s chair.
So all in all I thought this was an outstanding episode. Plenty of trek lore and a nice TNG type trek story that didn’t need shots fired to tell. I’m looking forward to figuring this “tune” thing out and can’t wait to see Georgiou’s story unfold. She just may end up in Section 31 in the 32nd century. It looks like Discovery is going to have to figure “The Burn” thing out.
Reese got the con!!
Why is this episode titled "Die Trying"?
What an opening scene. Discovery arrives at what's left of the "The Federation" and it was nice to see joy and awe in the crew's eyes as they make their way through a distortion field and take in the 32nd-century Federation/Starfleet landscape. We see the USS VOYAGER (NCC-74656-J). It appears now, that the Enterprise is not the only Star Ship to have earned alphanumeric designations. I guess Janeway and crew were thought of with reverence. I also (on second viewing) caught the USS Nog, an obvious tribute to Aron Eisenberg who sadly passed away last year. Quite nice. Suru orders the hail "USS Discovery reporting for duty"!
Sensors now have the ability to differentiate the symbiote from the host. Saru, Burnham and "Tal" are requested to beam onto the space station. They beam over, are in awe of their surroundings, and meet ADM Charles Vance, head of the Federation. We learn that Kaminar ended up joining the federation which makes Saru very proud. The ADM, rightly so, is very suspicious of Discovery and her arrival and after speaking with Adira, orders her to medical for a "diagnostic". An interesting term for a medical exam, I'm sure Reno would approve. The ADM eagerly awaits a debrief of Saru and Burnham. They tell their story and we learn that today’s Federation consists of 38 member planets, down from 350 at its peak. The ADM is convinced they are not lying to him, but there is no historical record of a "Red Angel" or "Control" so he caught between a rock and a hard place. He explains the "Temporal Accords" (a nod to 'Enterprise') and that time travel now is illegal and of course Discovery is guilty. He cannot risk trusting them without proof. So, he "requisitions" Discovery and orders her crew debriefed for reassignment. BAM, Saru, and Burnham are shocked. (and so was I)
The crew debriefings begin and they are being conducted by holograms. All quite humorous, but the best one was Georgiou’s. She is conversing with 2 holograms and she quickly overloads them by forcing them to shut their programs down. Then she enters into conversation with what appears to be a 32nd century Section 31 agent (Intel Department maybe?) played wonderfully by David Cronenberg and finally, she has met a mental equal or at least someone that intrigues her. He talked to her about 5 April 2063 (Terran holy day), where Terrans met Vulcans for the first time and they killed all the Vulcan's onboard. (referencing IAMD from Enterprise) We learn that the Terran Empire has crumbled after she left and that no one in the last 500 years has traversed between the mirror U and our U (universes drifting apart since she left) and we see Georgiou is visibly shocked by learning this. He decerns that the only reason she is here in this universe is that she must care for someone on the ship. All without asking her a question. At the end of this episode, Michael walks up on Georgiou and she's just standing there in a daze... she finally snaps out of it as Michael asks her if she is alright and she walks off without answering. It appears that Georgiou has always been under the impression she would return to her empire. Looks like that’s not going to happen and she is torn up about it. More to follow for sure and I hope it includes the unnamed character played by David Cronenberg. He was pretty awesome here. I’m still wondering what’s up with his glasses.
Back on Discovery, Michael is explaining to Saru that the ADM just doesn't understand and that Saru should be fighting for them. She goes on about how they can use Discovery to help the Keelu(?) and that would be enough proof for the ADM to let them stay together. Saru quite nicely puts Burnham in her place and tells her they will follow the correct procedures.
Saru and Michael join in conversation with the ADM once again and they figure out the only way to help the Keelu is to obtain a plant seed from a world that is no longer fertile in order to create an antidote. Michael remembers a seed ship, the ADM confirms its existence and of course, Discovery is the only ship that can get there and back in time. Michael can't explain this to the ADM without being the usual “Michael Burnham smart-ass” so the ADM again puts her in her place. Saru sees this as a way to solve two problems, help the Keelu and earn trust. Saru will stay behind and Michael will head up the mission - with Federation Security on board of course.
Discovery drops into the coordinates of the TeeKov and there is a huge ion storm that is masking the ship. They will have to enter and tractor the ship out. They do this, but Detmer is once again freezing up. Michael figures out a Barzan family was keeping watch (4-month rotation?) over the seed vault. Now we know that the Barzan also joined the Federation so Michael orders CDR Nhan to join the away crew. Michael, Hugh, and Nhan beam over. They walk up to a running hologram of a family humming a tune, the same tune that Adira was playing on the cello. (All Along the Watchtower starts playing in my head) Reno, Stamets, and Tilly work together and figures out that a CME hit the ship and killed the family and because the dad was beaming into the seed vault he didn't die because of quantum blah blah... they figure out how to save him and he helps the away team gain access to the required seeds. It needs to be mentioned again that these scenes are bolstered because Culber is in them. He's frakin awesome. I'm starting to think of him like Garak in DS9. If he's involved in the episode, it is better. Culber reveals that the husband will die of radiation poisoning if he stays. Of course, he doesn't want to leave his family. Michael convinces him to leave and as probably expected, Nhan remains behind to finish the Barzan responsibility of watching over the seeds and ensuring the dead wife and two children receive a proper burial. You can say this isn't "earned" I guess, but it's a fitting closure to this character and in character, I think. She did remain on Discovery to replace Airium out of a sense of duty. One wonders why Discovery couldn't have just jumped back and dropped the husband off after he healed though.
Couple notes… I really enjoyed Stamets, Reno, and Tilly working together, banter and all. I felt the Nhan character was just a tag-a-long so this ending to the character was a good one. Michael just can’t help being herself. It was nice that the ADM and Saru put her in her place. When Suru described Earth's renaissance painter Giotto, it harkened back to Archer’s story of the gazelle to the Vulcan’s and I thought showed great leadership and thoughtfulness when speaking with ADM Trance. But when ADM Trance stated that Detmer’s “readings” were baseline, Burnham responded with “we all put our lives in Detmer’s hands and would do it again”. That’s not the point and reveals a lack of leadership and understanding. Stating something along the lines of “we are aware of that and we will help her heal” would have been more appropriate and in my eyes depicts why she isn’t ready for the Captain’s chair.
So all in all I thought this was an outstanding episode. Plenty of trek lore and a nice TNG type trek story that didn’t need shots fired to tell. I’m looking forward to figuring this “tune” thing out and can’t wait to see Georgiou’s story unfold. She just may end up in Section 31 in the 32nd century. It looks like Discovery is going to have to figure “The Burn” thing out.
Reese got the con!!
Why is this episode titled "Die Trying"?
Last edited:
She strained her eyelids blinking too much. Terrans got weak eyes.
That would not inspire trust in Discovery's crew.
Sure, but question was why the DISCO crew wouldn't be keen on being split up.
Again?
I can understand why the crew wouldn't be keen on being split up. That said, it's absolutely something they should have every expectation of happening, given I have to presume it's the norm in Starfleet for people to serve only a handful of years on a given assignment before being rotated elsewhere. They should not be taken aback.
Its routine for her now. She has a pill for it.
Sure they should, because as I said, they are not soulless automatons.
Except for all those times starfleet seems perfectly comfortable with allowing experienced commanding officers to serve for 15 - 20 years with the same ship/crew.
Admiral Vance outright said "We don't do five year missions anymore", meaning that all those times crews stayed together for the duration of a long term mission are out the window.
Does it mean exactly that? And ENT-D wasn't on a 5 year and its XO refused promotion to stay on.
Uh, he's talking about the TOS movies, TNG and the TNG movies. Five years is a drop in the bucket compared to those "lifers".
Which all take place after the timeframe Discovery came from. Admiral Vance was basically saying we don't do long term things together anymore, and used "five year mission" as a term Saru would understand. Is Vance going to go into detail about how all missions after Discovery left somehow strangely became 7 years?
I mean, it fits in to my 6 hour expository series for Discovery's crew to catch up.
Looks like we’re treading precariously close to necromancy for the “Starfleet is military” debate again. The CNC basically implied that the Discovery is Starfleet property (not that of her crew) and shall be treated as such with the appropriate upgrades. This is an arguably militaristic stance. Further, if they are a more military-like organization than they used to be (a lot can change in 900 years), then Eschaton is exactly right. It is strict military policy to limit tours of duty in one location for no longer than 3 years, for the precise reasons he described. Soldiers often get rotated out sooner if they’re particularly capable and get promoted into a new station. While not military myself, I’ve contracted for them solidly since 2004 and I’ve heard this same reasoning (insurrection mitigation procedures) at multiple posts during that time. It’s the worst-kept secret in the military; most civilians are not aware of this, and think it’s just to give the personnel a wider variety of skill experiences. While that is a fringe benefit of rapid rotations, it is a secondary consideration.
It just occurred to me that if Discovery was really a crew full of villains/changelings/Species 8472/followers of Future Guy/whoever, Admiral Vance went mostly the wrong way, attitude wise, to deal with them, starting when he told off Adira (for doing absolutely nothing) in front of the crew.
Let's say Discovery's crew really were impostor villains. They came to steal the Federation's dilithium stash, or whatever. They'll likely have done a lot of research into their roles, their cover story, etc.
The moment Vance's scowling face hits their viewscreen, the impostors will immediately work harder to maintain their cover. They'll triple the power to their telepathy shield maskers, review their cover stories yet again, etc. All of which make it that much harder for Vance to prove they're villains.
Kirk actually had the right idea in giving Khan a banquet, making small talk, etc. Khan let his guard down and immediately showed his true colors of wanting to conquer people. Kirk's only mistake was letting Khan read the tech manuals.
Vance could have had a banquet to honor Discovery, let them be at ease, and yet keep a close watch the whole time. He won't let them read the tech manuals, but he could let them read history books (which actual villains would find worthless as they'd know it themselves). If Discovery's crew were villains, they'd let their guard down and show their true colors much quicker than if they were openly treated with suspicion the whole time.
Let's say Discovery's crew really were impostor villains. They came to steal the Federation's dilithium stash, or whatever. They'll likely have done a lot of research into their roles, their cover story, etc.
The moment Vance's scowling face hits their viewscreen, the impostors will immediately work harder to maintain their cover. They'll triple the power to their telepathy shield maskers, review their cover stories yet again, etc. All of which make it that much harder for Vance to prove they're villains.
Kirk actually had the right idea in giving Khan a banquet, making small talk, etc. Khan let his guard down and immediately showed his true colors of wanting to conquer people. Kirk's only mistake was letting Khan read the tech manuals.
Vance could have had a banquet to honor Discovery, let them be at ease, and yet keep a close watch the whole time. He won't let them read the tech manuals, but he could let them read history books (which actual villains would find worthless as they'd know it themselves). If Discovery's crew were villains, they'd let their guard down and show their true colors much quicker than if they were openly treated with suspicion the whole time.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll
