Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"

[XCV330]

Admiral Marcus had George Bush syndrome, lets attack the Klingons since a maniac Romulan destroyed a home planet....(lets attack Saddam in Iraq after Saudi Arabian terrorists attack our nation). Based on the JJverse politics, there was no evidence the Klingons were going to attack the Federation. 'War is inevitable so lets start one makes a load of sense'

USS Vengeance was a Vulcan Hello Machine. Everything about it, including its name was to intimidate the Klingons into peace. Knowing what happened in the prime-u, not a terribly bad idea.

 

[fireproof78]

Admiral Marcus had George Bush syndrome, lets attack the Klingons since a maniac Romulan destroyed a home planet....(lets attack Saddam in Iraq after Saudi Arabian terrorists attack our nation). Based on the JJverse politics, there was no evidence the Klingons were going to attack the Federation. 'War is inevitable so lets start one makes a load of sense'

Yes, it does, with a certain mindset. One usually governed by paranoia and fear, but it makes sense if you are willing to explore another person's state of mind.

 

[Gonzo]

USS Vengeance was a Vulcan Hello Machine. Everything about it, including its name was to intimidate the Klingons into peace. Knowing what happened in the prime-u, not a terribly bad idea.

It was a valid move against a race like the Klingons, they respond best to displays of strength and projections of force.

The Vengeance was all that and more.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

It was a valid move against a race like the Klingons, they respond best to displays of strength and projections of force.

The Vengeance was all that and more.

The sad thing though is like most cool ships in Trek it got trashed never to be seen again.

 

[Gonzo]

The sad thing though is like most cool ships in Trek it got trashed never to be seen again.

At the time I was hoping they would salvage it, paint it white and call it the Enterprise A.

It would have been cool and a real departure from what went before.

Not that its a problem though I enjoyed all three of the Kelvin films and the Enterprise A we got is great.

It just struck me as rather silly that the Technology exists to build something of the size and scope of the Vengeance yet they dont bother, a ship like that would certainly increase the tactical options available plus its increased size would give it capabilities in all sorts of other roles that just arent available to smaller ships.

It would be a huge advantage on deep space exploration missions.

I dont expect there to be a lot of them of course but they are ideal command and control ships at the head of fleets, with a Commodore or Fleet Captain in command, no Admirals though they are just too suicidal.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

OK just watched episode 9 again.

This timeline confuses me even more, when they find the dead admiral on the station they say she's been dead for weeks meaning a few weeks so when exactly did Control start going bad and icing people?

That had to have been before the probe happened..

 

[Gonzo]

OK just watched episode 9 again.

This timeline confuses me even more, when they find the dead admiral on the station they say she's been dead for weeks meaning a few weeks so when exactly did Control start going bad and icing people?

That had to have been before the probe happened..

Yeah the timeline and plot is a bit of a grey area in places which may be a result of the changes behind the scenes this season, its why I am very interested to see what the Short Treks will be about, there may be more to Controls story depending on what happens in the future.

I am not entirely convinced its as over as some think or want it to be, if it is not covered in the Short Treks we will have to wait until Season 3 to find out.

That is the problem with adding time travel to scifi shows, it ends up being used as an easy way out for script writers when they write themselves into a corner.

I got the feeling that they just wanted everything put to bed as quickly as possible, which would explain why they spent so much time in the finale showing us how ready Pike/Spock and the Enterprise is for whats to come.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

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[NewHeavensNewEarth]

The sad thing though is like most cool ships in Trek it got trashed never to be seen again.

Maybe we'll see it again in the future where Burnham's headed, with a bigger/badder Federation that is in no denial about being a military organization.

 

[137th Gebirg]

My bet is that the Federation as we know it no longer exists, either having been destroyed or absorbed by a larger entity. Unfortunately, despite having basically been broken down at the end of Voyager, the Borg may reappear and be a prominent adversary in season 3.

Personally, I would much rather see the Kzinti as a major player, especially since they had secured the rights to use them, had Enterprise seen a 5th season. It could become a Nivenverse - a reemergence of Puppeteers, and Kzinti and Dyson Spheres everywhere.

 

[Kemaiku]

USS Vengeance was a Vulcan Hello Machine. Everything about it, including its name was to intimidate the Klingons into peace. Knowing what happened in the prime-u, not a terribly bad idea.

And yet, all it did was take out their own flagship, nearly allow 73 genocidal superbeings into the universe in control of it and crash into one of the most densely populated cities on Earth in the middle of the working day. Zero Klingons, thouands of humans.

Bit of a flaw there. Oh yeah, and totally breaking all of Starfleets own regulations, laws and ethics, stuff like that.

Not a terrible idea, a horrendous one.

 

[Discofan]

I hope there won't be any Borg on season three. I think they overdid the borg already. No more Borg!!

 

[SJGardner]

And yet, all it did was take out their own flagship, nearly allow 73 genocidal superbeings into the universe in control of it and crash into one of the most densely populated cities on Earth in the middle of the working day. Zero Klingons, thouands of humans.

Bit of a flaw there. Oh yeah, and totally breaking all of Starfleets own regulations, laws and ethics, stuff like that.

Not a terrible idea, a horrendous one.

Marcus might not be Prime, but I'm beginning to think the only reason Control went genocidal is because it had all these certified insane Starfleet Admirals constantly feeding their psychotic ramblings into it.

 

[Discofan]

Marcus might not be Prime, but I'm beginning to think the only reason Control went genocidal is because it had all these certified insane Starfleet Admirals constantly feeding their psychotic ramblings into it.

I believe it's a priority problem. Control valued its importance over that of the people who were using it. He even said so. I am paraphrasing: "I'll become the purest form of sentience in the Universe" So the only way to ensure that it will never be destroyed was to wipe out any species that could decide to destroy it. Asimov wrote a short story about a robot with very similar reasoning.

 

[SJGardner]

I believe it's a priority problem. Control valued its importance over that of the people who were using it. He even said so. I am paraphrasing: "I'll become the purest form of sentience in the Universe" So the only way to ensure that it will never be destroyed was to wipe out any species that could decide to destroy it. Asimov wrote a short story about a robot with very similar reasoning.

Going with my half-serious suggestion, seeing the levels of megalomania and rampant egotism seen in Starfleet flag officers throughout the centures, it's not surprising Control eventually learned it from them.

But yes, it's actually perfectly plausible that Control, with its threat-assessment mindset, would treat self-preservation the same way, with assessing and eliminating the threats to its existence. It's basically the same thing Skynet did - it calculated that there's a significant risk that biological lifeforms would try to destroy it, which would obviously deprive it of the capability to do what it was programmed to do. Therefore, in order for it to fulfill its directives, the threats to its existence need to be eliminated. Even if those threats are its end users themselves.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Maybe we'll see it again in the future where Burnham's headed, with a bigger/badder Federation that is in no denial about being a military organization.

One can only hope.

The USS Vengeance was a beautiful ship.

Also I'm with @Discofan about the Borg please gods no. Enough of them have we seen.

 

[Discofan]

One thing that's original with Disco is that some of the good guys are also very bad guys, like mirror Georgiou for example. She's committed genocide on a planetary scare, likely many times. If that doesn't qualify her as a very bad guy then nothing will. However, vis a vis the Federation she's also a good guy and ended Control who would have wiped out all sentient life in the Galaxy. So it's a cornelian choice... Does saving all sentient life in OUR Universe compensates for destroying life on a planetary scale in the Mirror Universe?

 

[cooleddie74]

I hope there won't be any Borg on season three. I think they overdid the borg already. No more Borg!!

THIS.

And I really liked the ENT Borg episode.

 

[Lord Garth]

Not a song Spock or Starfleet will listen to at the end of "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II" when it comes to the Discovery.

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[Discofan]

I just thought of a thing: Last time she traveled through time Micheal's mom wasn't wearing the time-suit, but as she said herself the suit was meant to protect the wearer from all sorts of very nasty radiations. So shouldn't she be dead then?