Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"

[Gingerbread Demon]

Was it? Or was it later only using technology that Section 31 was already using for its own purposes as it didn't quite have what would be available to it in the future. Remember that Leland was ready himself to use the mindsifter on Spock.

Yeah he was, but I think Leland might have been in the dark on what went on during Spock's escape and I feel it was Control who faked the camera footage like we find out later on and would not have been surprised if it was that, that murdered those people during the escape because Leland, I'm sure didn't organize the deaths during the escape or the doctored footage, at least that's what I believe happened.

I'm up to the infamous probe episode now.

 

[Alan Roi]

Yeah he was, but I think Leland might have been in the dark on what went on during Spock's escape and I feel it was Control who faked the camera footage like we find out later on and would not have been surprised if it was that, that murdered those people during the escape because Leland, I'm sure didn't organize the deaths during the escape or the doctored footage, at least that's what I believe happened.

I'm up to the infamous probe episode now.

Except why would past Control be worried about Spock? It doesn't know what the RA bursts mean until Future Control infects it with knowledge from the future how important they are.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Except why would past Control be worried about Spock? It doesn't know what the RA bursts mean until Future Control infects it with knowledge from the future how important they are.

I don't know for sure.

I am just trying to make a timeline of the events as they happened in my head. If it wasn't Control who framed Spock for murder?

 

[Discofan]

Except why would past Control be worried about Spock? It doesn't know what the RA bursts mean until Future Control infects it with knowledge from the future how important they are.

It's obviously a writer's mistake. There are a few episodes like that in the franchise. Like in Schisms for example where Riker's sleeping problems predate the actions that would have caused the weird aliens to "analyze" the crew. Sometimes the little hamster falls asleep in the wheel.

 

[Alan Roi]

I don't know for sure.

I am just trying to make a timeline of the events as they happened in my head. If it wasn't Control who framed Spock for murder?

While there is no specific evidence, I look at it as the agents who were attempting to get info out of him (the 'doctor' and attendants) were S31 agents who, after having lost Spock, or their handler faked the footage of the attack in order to get more resources in play after Spock. Likely they were all alive, at least until Future Control did a purge.

 

[Discofan]

While there is no specific evidence, I look at it as the agents who were attempting to get info out of him (the 'doctor' and attendants) were S31 agents who, after having lost Spock, or their handler faked the footage of the attack in order to get more resources in play after Spock. Likely they were all alive, at least until Future Control did a purge.

I don't know. When they found the dead bodies on the station (the Vulcan Admiral et. al) they had been dead for a long time, obviously killed by Control (who else?).

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I don't know. When they found the dead bodies on the station (the Vulcan Admiral et. al) they had been dead for a long time, obviously killed by Control (who else?).

That's why maybe the writers goofed. Or we just don't know, or are not told. I think Control was active for a while doing stuff like that.

 

[Discofan]

That's why maybe the writers goofed. Or we just don't know, or are not told. I think Control was active for a while doing stuff like that.

Yes, and it's wouldn't be the first time. There are even Sherlock Holmes stories (the books) where he gets the sequence of events wrong. Writers are not perfect.

Plus future Control influencing present Control is a chicken and the egg type of paradox, IOW a causal impossibility.

 

[Alan Roi]

I don't know. When they found the dead bodies on the station (the Vulcan Admiral et. al) they had been dead for a long time, obviously killed by Control (who else?).

It had been weeks after Airiam had been infected and had been sending data from Discovery by that time, and Cornwell also stated Control had stopped doing its job for week as well..

 

[Phoenix219]

Mother and daughter.

Another case of predestination.

There was no predestination there, just timeline rewrites. There was no predestination involved on the Ent C; it got destroyed either way, whether it went into the future or not. After the timeline was altered with her presence, Sela became part of the rewritten timeline due to the actions of Tasha being in the past. Nothing about any of that was predestined.

 

[Phoenix219]

He was on Days Of Our Lives long before Star Trek...... And vanished in a time machine.

I have a vague memory of that from my grandmothers house decades ago, but the only thing that comes to mind is... robots and penguins? am i crazy?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I have a vague memory of that from my grandmothers house decades ago, but the only thing that comes to mind is... robots and penguins? am i crazy?

I have no idea but given its "Days Of Our Lives" I would not at all be surprised so much crazy stuff happened on that show.

 

[Phoenix219]

Yes, and it's wouldn't be the first time. There are even Sherlock Holmes stories (the books) where he gets the sequence of events wrong. Writers are not perfect.

Plus future Control influencing present Control is a chicken and the egg type of paradox, IOW a causal impossibility.

Not really a paradox at all, just a timeline rewrite that almost hastened the destruction.... think T2.

Control evolved naturally, then tried to speed things up and ensure itself. It failed at this gamble. Don't know why it bothered, if it had already won in the future.

 

[Discofan]

...

Control evolved naturally, then tried to speed things up and ensure itself. It failed at this gamble. Don't know why it bothered, if it had already won in the future.

If Control had evolved naturally then I don't see why he would have risked compromising everything by trying to rewrite the past. If it ain't broke... Don't fix it. I think a sophisticated AI is capable of understanding that.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I have no idea but given its "Days Of Our Lives" I would not at all be surprised so much crazy stuff happened on that show.

I always thought GH was the soap that did sci-fi, up to and including an alien. Weather machines, cryo-freezing then reviving the dead multiple times, memory transfer, etc, etc.

 

[Phoenix219]

I was under the impression that at some point in the future, Control merges with the sphere data and attains sentience, and decimates the galaxy. When the probe entered the future, it was assimilated by Control, and ended up at the past. I can only guess that the directive that went from the probe -> Ariam -> present day Control corrupted the AI and began its drive for the sphere data early. In a way, it seems like it gave itself a virus. It wasn't ready for that directive or that kind of info yet. Or something. *shrug*

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I always thought GH was the soap that did sci-fi, up to and including an alien. Weather machines, cryo-freezing then reviving the dead multiple times, memory transfer, etc, etc.

What an alien, in General Hospital? I never knew this...

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

What an alien, in General Hospital? I never knew this...

In 1990, an alien from Lumina named Casey was befriended by Robin. Probably the silliest storyline they ever did, but not by much.

I forgot to mention Caleb the vampire on the Port Charles spin-off. That was a classic.

 

[Nyotarules]

I thought the film was great, especially the Vengeance, a proper Starfleet warship built to intimidate any potential aggressor and ideally stop a war before it even starts.

Admiral Marcus response to the destruction of Vulcan was an understandable one, plus he was actually correct about the Klingons but underestimated Khan, I also liked the callback to Wrath of Khan between Kirk and Spock.

Admiral Marcus had George Bush syndrome, lets attack the Klingons since a maniac Romulan destroyed a home planet....(lets attack Saddam in Iraq after Saudi Arabian terrorists attack our nation). Based on the JJverse politics, there was no evidence the Klingons were going to attack the Federation. 'War is inevitable so lets start one makes a load of sense'

 

[Alan Roi]

If Control had evolved naturally then I don't see why he would have risked compromising everything by trying to rewrite the past. If it ain't broke... Don't fix it. I think a sophisticated AI is capable of understanding that.

Someone was busy trying to break that past that wasn't broke..