Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"

[Discofan]

No matter what happens, there is just something in this reasoning that makes me irrationally angry. Okay, I agree there is poetic beauty and nobility in self-sacrifice for the greater good, but I can only stomach it when one does it on their own volition without prodding. I just can't see convincing a sentient, sapient being to kill itself for whatever reason as anything but plain old murder. I just can't put myself in a mindset where anyone could vindicate the right to tell anyone whether they should live or die. Send the sphere data to the future? I have no problems with that and that's a very poetic and noble sacrifice on its part. But outright telling it to kill itself for the greater good? That's a huge no for me. Possibly the hugest I can imagine.

You're assuming that the sphere data is not only alive but a sapient being. I don't think I would go that far.

Plus the sphere data wouldn't survive it's merging with Control. It would become a monster guilty of multiple holocausts. A thing that would be to Hitler what Superman is to an ordinary man.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Maybe the Sphere Data secretly wants to merge with Control ?
Just putting it out there

Sure, but the Sphere Data wants to "be on top"

 

[SJGardner]

You're assuming that the sphere data is not only alive but a sapient being. I don't think I would go that far.

Yes, I'm assuming that. There were a few posts upthread that seemed to imply to me it could be reasoned with because it's sapient/sentient. Though if it's decidedly subsapient and just a piece of intelligent software working within the confines of its programming, then it would be definitely easier for me as well to accept it being convinced to purge itself from the system. But ultimately, you're right, we haven't seen anything yet that would suggest it has already evolved to sapience.

 

[Discofan]

Sure, but the Sphere Data wants to "be on top"

But we know for a fact that once the sphere data will have merged with Control, the resulting being will destroy all sentient life in the galaxy... So either it won't be on top, or it has in itself the desire to kill billions of people. Either way, its destruction is a lesser evil.

 

[SJGardner]

But we know for a fact that once the sphere data will have merged with Control, the resulting being will destroy all sentient life in the galaxy... So either it won't be on top, or it has in itself the desire to kill billions of people. Either way, its destruction is a lesser evil.

Do we actually know it would be a full-on merger as opposed to subsumption-integration though? It might be possible that the resulting AI would only be malicious if it was created by Control forcibly integrating the Sphere data into itself. I'm thinking about this because we've only ever seen the Sphere Data exhibit an instinct for self-preservation. That could be taken to mean Control was a more powerful entity at this point as it has already shown initiative and agency on its own. Maybe if Control's efforts were delayed enough that Zora actually emerged from the Sphere Data, it would have a much harder time merging and either of the two could end up on top.

 

[Discofan]

Do we actually know it would be a full-on merger as opposed to subsumption-integration though? It might be possible that the resulting AI would only be malicious if it was created by Control forcibly integrating the Sphere data into itself. I'm thinking about this because we've only ever seen the Sphere Data exhibit an instinct for self-preservation. That could be taken to mean Control was a more powerful entity at this point as it has already shown initiative and agency on its own. Maybe if Control's efforts were delayed enough that Zora actually emerged from the Sphere Data, it would have a much harder time merging and either of the two could end up on top.

That could be a consequence of its desire for self-preservation. If it places that desire above all else. It could decide that the only way to assure it's preservation is to destroy everything that could possibly get in the way, IE all sentient life in the galaxy. It's just a matter of priority. Take a robot with the three laws of robotics (I think Asimov wrote a story about that) if the robot is convinced that not only he is a human being but a superior form of human being then it could conclude that it's survival is more important than that of any human being and by extension that it should make sure that only human beings of its type remain.

 

[SJGardner]

That could be a consequence of its desire for self-preservation. If it places that desire above all else. It could decide that the only way to assure it's preservation is to destroy everything that could possibly get in the way, IE all sentient life in the galaxy. It's just a matter of priority. Take a robot with the three laws of robotics (I think Asimov wrote a story about that) if the robot is convinced that not only he is a human being but a superior form of human being then it could conclude that it's survival is more important than that of any human being and by extension that it should make sure that only human beings of its type remain.

I think if we actually saw the merger of the two, the writers could decide on any way to proceed. There are already too many "ifs." I think at the "intelligence levels", for lack of a better term, we have seen Control and the Sphere Data embedded in Discovery's computer operate, a merger would end up with the more intelligent Control integrating the Sphere Data into itself as a subroutine or maybe even as raw data it could analyze to it's heart's content. If Zora emerged and was of a comparable sentience to Control, their situation might be end up more like Tuvix, with all the wildly unpredictable results it could entail. And of course, if Zora became fully sentient, which Control was explicitly stated not to be yet, she might be able to fight off Control's code and stay herself.

 

[publiusr]

I want woman popes!

You mean "the papal mainframe herself" to steal a Dr. Who quote.

 

[Delta Vega]

Sure, but the Sphere Data wants to "be on top"

Careful now

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Sure, but the Sphere Data wants to "be on top"

and being a sphere it would roll off

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

and being a sphere it would roll off

I think you're forgetting the 4th dimension physics of a successful relationship.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I think you're forgetting the 4th dimension physics of a successful relationship.

That is true. I knowingly was haha. I was showing my anti-sphere bias.

 

[Discofan]

and being a sphere it would roll off

Actually, the sphere data is not a sphere. I mean it could be contained inside a sphere or a cube or something looking like Leland (but not the actual Leland) but it doesn't have a shape per se.

 

[SJGardner]

Actually, the sphere data is not a sphere.

Of course not. It's an oblate spheroid. Although there are a few weirdos who keep claiming it's flat.

... I just couldn't resist

 

[Discofan]

Of course not. It's an oblate spheroid. Although there are a few weirdos who keep claiming it's flat.

... I just couldn't resist

Think of that next time you peel a potato... there could be sphere data in it.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Think of that next time you peel a potato... there could be sphere data in it.

And with that I'll leave you here with the real life Paul Stamets

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[SJGardner]

Think of that next time you peel a potato... there could be sphere data in it.

And with that I'll leave you here with the real life Paul Stamets

For some reason I'm starting to have sudden urges to buy that TOS Enterprise-shaped pizza cutter I keep seeing in online stores all over the place.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Let the Mycelium run...... The spores must flow

 

[SJGardner]

Let the Mycelium run...... The spores must flow

So in Season 3, Discovery will found itself in a region ravaged by a trade war between the galaxy's biggest Spore Barons. And maybe the British East India Beta Quadrant Company trying to conquer everything to get a monopoly... alright, I might be just joking, but come to think of it, a setting resembling the Age of Sail with all the swashbuckling adventures might even end up being great.

... or as the spores are hallucinogenic, Discovery's crew will have to come to terms with the fact that they basically have to become drug runners to sustain themselves, and the existing Spore Cartels won't exactly be happy about any new competitors.

 

[Discofan]

When people find out that the mycelial forest can bring people back from the dead... It will like the countless other miraculous ways of becoming immortal that have been shown in the franchise... IE swept under the rug and never spoken of ever again!