Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
In Calypso Discovey had not jumped to the future. It had stayed hidden and abandoned for a 1000 years. So this Discovery going 900+ years into the future has nothing to do with Calypso.
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Far from alone, polls show that.
I just don’t think they should have fighters. Star Trek ships aren’t big enough to warrant them.
Chuck De Nomolos?
TNG had what, 150+ stories over 7 seasons? Disco will have played out just 7 stories made up of around 100 episodes. Don't think either is enough to play out this series.
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Did we get exact dates, or is it all relative?
If DISC is 2255, the jump goes to 3155. Is Calypso 4155, or 3255? Because one could happen after the other.
I really liked this episode. It was intense! Wall to wall action and just enough soft moments and emotional beats to make it work.
Discovery works best for me when I try not to think about it too much and just go along for the ride.
I do wish we had gotten some little hint of what happened to the Discovery and crew when they came out of the other side of the wormhole. It almost felt like they were getting rid of Disco and handing the show off to be a new Pike/Spock series on the 1701. Obviously they're not doing that, but that's really what it looked like. Even a group shot of the Disco crew together on the bridge or something would have been nice to see, just to at least leave you with a hint that it's not the series finale or whatever. I had to read an interview with Kurtzman to understand that there would be a season 3 and it's 900 years in the future.
Discovery works best for me when I try not to think about it too much and just go along for the ride.
I do wish we had gotten some little hint of what happened to the Discovery and crew when they came out of the other side of the wormhole. It almost felt like they were getting rid of Disco and handing the show off to be a new Pike/Spock series on the 1701. Obviously they're not doing that, but that's really what it looked like. Even a group shot of the Disco crew together on the bridge or something would have been nice to see, just to at least leave you with a hint that it's not the series finale or whatever. I had to read an interview with Kurtzman to understand that there would be a season 3 and it's 900 years in the future.
Discovery 02x14 thoughts & things noticed
- triple split screens!
- camera swinging around so wildly all the time gives me a headache
- great action, space battle
- R2D2s to the rescue
- bridge consoles explode into bits of rocks, TNG reference
- Klingons & Kelpians to the rescue
- "today is a good day to die"
- wormhole travel '2001' visual reference
- torpedo stuck in the hull, DS9 reference
- Cornwell sacrifices herself to save Enterprise
- "the person farthest from you"...... Kirk
- Tilly chanelling O'Brien... "somebody owes me a beer"
- wormhole, visual time distortions
- Pike, Ash, Number One lie about Discovery, say it exploded.
- Earth. Space Dock.
- Spock shaves the beard, put on THE uniform.
- triple split screens!
- camera swinging around so wildly all the time gives me a headache
- great action, space battle
- R2D2s to the rescue
- bridge consoles explode into bits of rocks, TNG reference
- Klingons & Kelpians to the rescue
- "today is a good day to die"
- wormhole travel '2001' visual reference
- torpedo stuck in the hull, DS9 reference
- Cornwell sacrifices herself to save Enterprise
- "the person farthest from you"...... Kirk
- Tilly chanelling O'Brien... "somebody owes me a beer"
- wormhole, visual time distortions
- Pike, Ash, Number One lie about Discovery, say it exploded.
- Earth. Space Dock.
- Spock shaves the beard, put on THE uniform.
And a shout out to Jeff Russo... his score was amazing...... the callback to his Klingon theme from episode 1 was again very effective, as was the variation of it in the previous episode when Michael and Tyler hug. also the theme when Discovery follows Michael’s signal.. incredible...
This was the lowest rating of the season for me. It worked okay, but things that needed to be strong were just undermined too much for me to really pull off what they were going for. There's a lot of energy here and everyone was really putting in their best effort, but ultimately the writing and editing were the weak links and let everything else down. The story tries to line things up, but while it makes a good try to coalesce the different plots they don't land on their marks, and the editing left some scenes too long and others too rushed in ways that constantly killed the momentum of the action and the gravity of the character moments.
Random thought: it amused me to think that the Kelpiens have successfully eradicated the Ba'ul and commandeered their ships. I was almost expecting to hear Siranna exclaim it triumphantly when she arrived. No one seems to think it was necessary to check up on that volatile situation in all the time (two episodes, I believe) they spent in orbit of the planet after they activated a planet-wide catastrophe.
Of course, this is all secondary to the fact that once Leland was on board Discovery, traveling to the future to keep Discovery from falling into his hands was no longer a valid plan. It takes him out of the past, sure, but the entire purpose was to keep CONTROL separated from the Sphere Data, not isolate him with it.
The real question is: how did she disable the Ba'ul ship and Pylon Network? They did the bare minimum of making the events line up, but only just.
Random thought: it amused me to think that the Kelpiens have successfully eradicated the Ba'ul and commandeered their ships. I was almost expecting to hear Siranna exclaim it triumphantly when she arrived. No one seems to think it was necessary to check up on that volatile situation in all the time (two episodes, I believe) they spent in orbit of the planet after they activated a planet-wide catastrophe.
Given that it ended like a series finale, I wonder if there will be people who think the miniseries is over...
It basically does, sadly. The Emperor defeats CONTROL before they enter the wormhole, and everything collapses. The day is won, and yet for some reason the ship and crew continue sacrificing themselves. If the moment weren't so drawn out it might feel like there wasn't time, but the episode managed this very poorly overall numerous times; they had plenty of time to abort the secondary mission (hiding Discovery) once the primary objective (defeating CONTROL) was completed.
Exactly. The Emperor informs them that CONTROL is neutralized, Number One notes that they're all dead, yet Saru acknowledges this information and still continues. Two minutes pass in the show after the collapse of CONTROL before they cross through the event horizon of the anomaly. If it was meant to be that they had already passed a point of no return, it was not communicated (they are shown flying through debris and other ships still), and the lengthy process of them entering gives the audience way too much time to consider after the threat was defeated. Even if there was a concern about complete eradication of CONTROL, the ticking clock and immediate danger had passed, and that was the main thing that was forcing their hand at using such a dangerous method to dispose of the data (along with the crew).
Of course, this is all secondary to the fact that once Leland was on board Discovery, traveling to the future to keep Discovery from falling into his hands was no longer a valid plan. It takes him out of the past, sure, but the entire purpose was to keep CONTROL separated from the Sphere Data, not isolate him with it.
The label says "Authorized Personnel Only" which sounds more like a "pull alarm only in case of emergency" sort of thing, not something enforced by security codes. It's the sort of control that you want to discourage people from using because then you need a crew to come down and manually reset the whole door and reload the charges, etc. I doubt it literally required an Admiral to open it (though with the way the episodes are plotted sometimes, I can't be 100% certain this wasn't the intent).
The Spore drive was pivotal in acquiring the data needed to defeat the Klingon cloaking device and avert massive casualties in the war. And then it made them arrive nine months late to deliver that information. Because reasons.
This has been driving me nuts several times this season, and I think this episode really gave up even trying. They keep giving the characters immediate danger and consequences where people are dying with every moment they delay, and yet the characters stand in the eye of the storm for heart-to-heart chats. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate (most of) the chats they're giving these characters -- or at least I would in other circumstances -- but because of the dire situation it makes them look completely self-absorbed in their own emotional conflict and indifferent to the deaths of those relying on them to carry out their missions. The one between Spock and Burnham especially felt like three or four farewells when one really needed to suffice.
Just because something is successful does not mean it cannot be poorly-handled. Some success happens in spite of the odds, or even worthiness. Unless one believes that everything successful deserves it, and everything unsuccessful likewise deserves that as well.
Honestly, her visiting the signals and us being shown each one really was padding. We saw nothing new, no moments of Burnham accomplishing anything we didn't see before, realizing anything about herself or her journey, it was all rehashing the events from earlier in the season simply in reflection. There was no new context or perspective, except that we have the understanding that these appearances were her and not her mother, but there's nothing we gained from seeing it. It felt more like an inevitability than a culmination due to the prolonged nature of the sequence as well as the delays leading up to it. It's too bad, because this kind of fulfillment of a time loop can be very satisfying if executed well.
Simply by being there, apparently, even though they explicitly didn't directly accompany the appearance of the Angel. What the episode seemed to demonstrate was that the Signal was the moment of temporal incursion, and then she waited/sped through the local event timeline while cloaked until the moment she needed to appear and then did so. Somehow.
The real question is: how did she disable the Ba'ul ship and Pylon Network? They did the bare minimum of making the events line up, but only just.
That's the main feature of conspiracy-centered thought. Both absence of evidence and counter-evidence to any claim can be used as proof for the claim. A well-constructed conspiracy is unfalsifiable.
Same here. That's the end of Star Trek. I know this is a post-9/11 television world, but I don't watch Star Trek to see heroes fail and the villains win and everyone to be miserable. There are plenty of stories yet to be told and drama to be had without this one plot that is the antithesis of everything the franchise is about. There are already plenty of unhappy deconstructionist stories out there, for people who want it.
I couldn't have said it better.
Despite my hopes they wouldn't do so, Pike called her Una when he gave her the conn before heading down to join Cornwell.
I would have thought McCoy would be the person farthest from Spock.
You honestly can't imagine that Control has a backup somewhere which could continue going after the Sphere data once this battle is over?
We know it does from the novels.
If you have a negative opinion of the episode then go ahead and post it. But don't make drive-by sniping posts at others simply for having a different opinion than you.
That's definitely something to look forward to!
I did laugh at the repair bots on the Enterprise hull. @guyute03 My first thought was R2 as well!
Anyway, that episode was a bit, well, wow.
Despite the story stagnating a little for a few episodes, I felt the Red Angel story actually tied itself up neatly enough. The sight of the Kelpians and the Klingons warping in to save the day was a brilliant moment. The fact that it was all down to Burnham's actions in travelling to the different systems in the first place really clicked for me.
Today is a good day to die! That almost made it worth having the badly paced Klingon arc this year by itself. Almost. I am happy that Tyler hasn't travelled to the future with Discovery, so hopefully it's a bit of a reprieve from this useless guy.
Poor Admiral Cornwell! I's convinced myself a while ago that Pike was going to end up in his chair by the season's end, so I was happy to see him lie another day. Now with a shaven Spock, they can bring on the Pike series.
Discovery travelling to the future, only for us to not actually seeing anything happen there, was probably a wise choice. It left things mysterious enough for us to wildly guess everything that will happen next season. With so much going on in the rest of the episode, just making it though the wormhole felt like an epic farewell to the crew.
I also liked that we haven't had a reset button at the end of it all to explain why Burnham was never mentioned in TOS. Yes, a bit of hand-waving going on, but I liked that Spock, Pike and everyone else lied about Discovery's whereabouts, and that because of the failure of Section 31, Starfleet should keep it classified.
Anyway, that episode was a bit, well, wow.
Despite the story stagnating a little for a few episodes, I felt the Red Angel story actually tied itself up neatly enough. The sight of the Kelpians and the Klingons warping in to save the day was a brilliant moment. The fact that it was all down to Burnham's actions in travelling to the different systems in the first place really clicked for me.
Today is a good day to die! That almost made it worth having the badly paced Klingon arc this year by itself. Almost. I am happy that Tyler hasn't travelled to the future with Discovery, so hopefully it's a bit of a reprieve from this useless guy.
Poor Admiral Cornwell! I's convinced myself a while ago that Pike was going to end up in his chair by the season's end, so I was happy to see him lie another day. Now with a shaven Spock, they can bring on the Pike series.
Discovery travelling to the future, only for us to not actually seeing anything happen there, was probably a wise choice. It left things mysterious enough for us to wildly guess everything that will happen next season. With so much going on in the rest of the episode, just making it though the wormhole felt like an epic farewell to the crew.
I also liked that we haven't had a reset button at the end of it all to explain why Burnham was never mentioned in TOS. Yes, a bit of hand-waving going on, but I liked that Spock, Pike and everyone else lied about Discovery's whereabouts, and that because of the failure of Section 31, Starfleet should keep it classified.
Thank you Locutus! I am genuinely bothered by it, doesn’t fit this great forum I have been a member of for 20 years. Thanks again!
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