Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x10 - "The Red Angel"

[BillJ]

No, I had a feeling her parents would be connected to the spore drive actually or some sort of spore shadow or whatever.

The reveal you talk about is in "The Red Angel". Her parents crossed my mind, but seemed like an uninspired choice for what they were going for. It seemed like early on they were going for some kind of religious story that had something to say, then shifted to standard Trek tropes once Harberts and Berg were fired. They must have taken their story notes with them.

 

[Alan Roi]

You mean ten minutes before the reveal, in the same episode?

We knew from day one that her parents were killed in a Klingon attack, but the reason wasn't revealed at the time. Later we learn that Leland and maybe Section 31 was involved. Then we ultimately learn that Michael's parents worked for Section 31 and were the target of the Klingon attack because of what they were working on.

 

[fireproof78]

The reveal you talk about is in "The Red Angel". Her parents crossed my mind, but seemed like an uninspired choice for what they were going for. It seemed like early on they were going for some kind of religious story that had something to say, then shifted to standard Trek tropes once Harberts and Berg were fired. They must have taken their story notes with them.

Yes, I realize that I wasn't clear in my thought process. I figured that their story would receive more attention this season. With Culber coming back as a spore ghost or whatever I thought the Red Angel might be in kind and connected with Burnham. A member of her family made most sense to me.

 

[BillJ]

We knew from day one that her parents were killed in a Klingon attack, but the reason wasn't revealed at the time. Later we learn that Leland and maybe Section 31 was involved. Then we ultimately learn that Michael's parents worked for Section 31 and were the target of the Klingon attack because of what they were working on.

We knew her parents were killed by Klingons early on, the rest was info-dumped in "The Red Angel", IIRC.

 

[Alan Roi]

The reveal you talk about is in "The Red Angel". Her parents crossed my mind, but seemed like an uninspired choice for what they were going for. It seemed like early on they were going for some kind of religious story that had something to say, then shifted to standard Trek tropes once Harberts and Berg were fired. They must have taken their story notes with them.

Just because a story starts seeming about one thing and turns into something else isn't automatically a missed opportunity. A story that starts off with faith and then is unpeeled into science is not a missed opportunity. It is a progression. This season has been all about superstitious ideas being unpeeled into things they aren't. The Red Angel isn't from Heaven. May isn't a Ghost. The Great Balance between the Ba'ul is a lie. etc.

 

[Alan Roi]

We knew her parents were killed by Klingons early on, the rest was info-dumped in "The Red Angel", IIRC.

No, there was an earlier reference in dialogue between Georgiou and Leland that set's up the 'infodump'.

 

[BillJ]

A story that starts off with faith and then is unpeeled into science is not a missed opportunity. It is a progression.

Not always, and anyone that knows me here knows that I'm not a religious man. But sometimes it is good that a story stretches and challenges your belief system, whatever it is. This one is just more of Discovery falling back on well-used Trek tropes.

 

[fireproof78]

Not always, and anyone that knows me here knows that I'm not a religious man. But sometimes it is good that a story stretches and challenges your belief system, whatever it is. This one is just more of Discovery falling back on well-used Trek tropes.

What trope is that?

 

[Turtletrekker]

Trek Core made a connection between "The Red Angel" and Voyager's "Future's End", essentially confirming Michael's parent's theory about interference in history from the future.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I fail to make any sense of your complaint.

Someone already pointed it out. You get the Voyager syndrome.

Once you carelessly introduce time travel into your stories, it becomes a crutch that inevitably brakes and you sidle down the slope on one leg and end up in the snow pile called "Timeless" and that snowball eventually becomes "Endgame."

That's not to say the writers of the other shows overly meticulous, but TOS/TVH, TNG, and DS9 did make an effort to cross the Ts and dot the Is whenever they deployed time travel. But writing the Red Angel suit as the result of some pseudo cloak and dagger political intrigue arms race just opens a nasty can of worms.

 

[SolarisOne]

We have to take the good with the bad. Otherwise, we'd have to toss out a whole lot of Trek and there would be no consensus.

Still gonna call it out when they do stupid stuff. It's almost as if they were reading Steven Moffat's playbook, but instead of copying his good material they copied the bad.

I'm going to my next eye exam with a welding mask.

You'll just get glass in your eyes along with the needle.

You’re being silly. Expecting better is not a bad thing. Saying the emperor has no clothes is not treason.

Maybe it’s a byproduct of dealing with too many pointless haters.

Bingo!

Stamets (and maybe Culber) are not pansexual in the Mirror Universe if they’re gay in this one, unless you’re saying the more eeeevil you are the more sexual you are.

Yeah. This one really bothers me. Like I said earlier, I almost stopped watching the episode entirely at said point. Which brings up another point--Prime Georgiou was probably bi or pansexual. At least she should have been. In my headcanon, she was.

 

[Alan Roi]

Someone already pointed it out. You get the Voyager syndrome.

Once you carelessly introduce time travel into your stories, it becomes a crutch that inevitably brakes and you sidle down the slope on one leg and end up in the snow pile called "Timeless" and that snowball eventually becomes "Endgame."

That's not to say the writers of the other shows overly meticulous, but TOS/TVH, TNG, and DS9 did make an effort to cross the Ts and dot the Is whenever they deployed time travel. But writing the Red Angel suit as the result of some pseudo cloak and dagger political intrigue arms race just opens a nasty can of worms.

Except this isn't a careless introduction. There's no indication that, as with Voyager, the whole show will be reset at the end of the season like it didn't happen. To the contrary, we are being shown the consequences of reckless use of time travel here.

Honestly, Voyager was all about the big reset button, whether they were using time travel or not.

I see no parallel at all in any way so far this season has progressed to Voyager's time travel resets which hardly started with Timeless. Voyager started doing that from the getgo Writing the Red Angel as a consequence to a previous arms race that is no longer going on is exactly the opposite of what Voyager engaged in.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Tilly is certainly not obese. She might be a few pounds overweight, but she mostly just looks like a normal person.

The main problem is Trek uniforms look absolutely horrible on anyone who's not toned, rail thin, or wearing a girdle like Frakes/McNeill did. Excepting the TOS movie uniforms, which were specifically were designed to help hide weight.

Whereas I think nobody needs to hide their body shape just because it doesn't fit some standard. Tilly is not Hollywood skinny, but she is nowhere near overweight. I find the fact that someone with a different body type gets to exist in a show like this without said body getting forced into an unnatural shape refreshing. There is no reason to hide anyone's body.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

I dunno, family seems to be a major theme in the arc.

I am not condemning the behind the scene folks for doing it, however, I still do not believe it was really necessary to make Michael Burnham a member of Spock's family. In fact, so far, it stills feels like a contrivance and done just to do.

Having said that.

I like the Michael Burnham character and am enjoying season 2 very much. Ethan Peck is absolutely terrific and won over my skeptical heart. The only downside is since they do have him as Spock we probably won't see him after this season.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Same here. "Damage to the writer's room?" Why? Because they use magic to get out of situations? This is Star Trek, where magic is just technobabble we don't understand yet

Ah yes, the old familiar cry of "Deus Ex Machina!" Remember it well during the TNG years on AOL (and every Trek series thereafter).

 

[XCV330]

I may not be looking for real science, but it is nice all the same when writers make the effort. Besides, why the heck was time travel such a big deal in TOS when every one in the galaxy seems to know about time crystals seven years earlier?

if you grind them up you get protomatter. they emit Braggatron Particles and Berman Waves

 

[CorporalClegg]

Voyager's time travel resets which hardly started with Timeless.

Of course not. I said the Timeless and Endgame were at the end of the slippery slope.

And here's the thing, the sope really started to pick up speed with Year of Hell - and episode all about the dangers of messing with the timeline, specifically the bad guy altering the universe to his satisfaction without any regard to the existential crisis doing so creates.

But Timless and then Endgame show hero characters altering the universe to their satisfaction without any regard to the existential crisis.

Now Disco is telling us that time travel is so readily available that it created an arms race to weaponize it without any regard to the existential crisis. And yes, we get the Matrix bots nuking the galaxy as a consequence. But, as I said, Year of Hell already did that. And look what it got them.

And don't be lulled into thinking this'll be a one-time thing - that the writers won't go to the well again. This is already the third time (in two short seasons) that they've used some kind of time travel or alteration.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

if you grind them up you get protomatter. they emit Braggatron Particles and Berman Waves

PS: I loathe Brannon Braga and Rick Berman. Just had to say it.

 

[BillJ]

What trope is that?

People mucking about in the timeline would be one. Like Professor Rasmussen ("A Matter of Time"), Arne Darvin ("Trials and Tribble-ations"), Admiral Janeway ("Endgame"), Future Guy ("Broken Bow" and the rest of Enterprise), the Borg Queen (Star Trek: First Contact).

 

[BillJ]

PS: I loathe Brannon Braga and Rick Berman. Just had to say it.

Like pretty much every other Trek creator, they had their collective ups-and-downs. Some great stuff mixed in with things that leave you scratching your head.