Another thread I liked was that Kelpian’s predators are lying to them about their biology to keep them on their place and Saru is openly stating his intent to break the prime directive and wage revolution.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x04 - "An Obol for Charon"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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That's an absurd comment. It's not like none of that stuff existed in TOS.
I believe that many forget that Burnham and Saru spent SEVEN YEARS together on the USS Shenzhou under the command of Captain Georgieu.
We may not have seen it, but obviously, they have a lot of back story that makes their relationship much deeper than we realize.
It also accounts for why Saru is so devastated and angry by Michael's betrayal at the Battle of the Binary Stars.
also, everybody who doesn't believe it watch the 'blackberry* scene' (context is for kings) again and look into saru's eyes
---
* or whatever these are
You want to bring up not mentioning a relative in a conversation about Star Trek?????
I know I keep repeating myself, but I'm so frustrated by not being able to watch the show when it originally airs. I'd love to comment live on the episodes, like some of you are doing. Coming late into a 30+ page thread isn't much fun at all.
As for the episode, I'm glad they're back to the quality of “Brother”, which I liked a bit more, but this was good as well. Not perfect, but good. The three story threads felt somewhat disjointed and I didn't feel that it all gelled all that well. I kept thinking there was some connection between the Tilly predicament and the sphere, but they were completely unrelated. I don't know, it just felt weird how Stamets, Tilly and Reno were so isolated from the rest. Why wasn't anyone trying to help them?
Meeting Number One was cool and I loved how much hot sauce she was putting on her food.
One thing I was wondering about, though: Was this another case of “transwarp beaming” with the Enterprise nowhere in sight? I get the impression the Discovery showrunners seem to think the transporter works across the whole galaxy.
The UT malfunction was a funny idea and I kept wondering why Trek had never done this before. The closest I can think of was “Babel” from Deep Space Nine. Pike's German wasn't bad at all, I thought. I was curious and switched over to the German dub, where he was speaking French, I think.
I seem to be in a minority on this, but I'm still bothered by some of the dialog they are writing for these characters. The emotional heft of a scene like the one between Saru and Michael in her lab is completely undermined by lines of dialog like: “You are the most empathic soul I know.” I can't put my finger on it, but often the characters seem to go out of their way to phrase what they are trying to say in the most unnatural and roundabout way possible. Or maybe it's just the delivery, I don't know.
As for the episode, I'm glad they're back to the quality of “Brother”, which I liked a bit more, but this was good as well. Not perfect, but good. The three story threads felt somewhat disjointed and I didn't feel that it all gelled all that well. I kept thinking there was some connection between the Tilly predicament and the sphere, but they were completely unrelated. I don't know, it just felt weird how Stamets, Tilly and Reno were so isolated from the rest. Why wasn't anyone trying to help them?
Meeting Number One was cool and I loved how much hot sauce she was putting on her food.
One thing I was wondering about, though: Was this another case of “transwarp beaming” with the Enterprise nowhere in sight? I get the impression the Discovery showrunners seem to think the transporter works across the whole galaxy. The UT malfunction was a funny idea and I kept wondering why Trek had never done this before. The closest I can think of was “Babel” from Deep Space Nine. Pike's German wasn't bad at all, I thought. I was curious and switched over to the German dub, where he was speaking French, I think.
I seem to be in a minority on this, but I'm still bothered by some of the dialog they are writing for these characters. The emotional heft of a scene like the one between Saru and Michael in her lab is completely undermined by lines of dialog like: “You are the most empathic soul I know.” I can't put my finger on it, but often the characters seem to go out of their way to phrase what they are trying to say in the most unnatural and roundabout way possible. Or maybe it's just the delivery, I don't know.
I agree that this sounds like a fun spin that would have been a tad bit more interesting. Having Detmer – who according to background info is supposed to be German – speak German for once would have been funny.
It's illogical, but I kinda feel the same way. Knowing it's not the same actress under the makeup makes me more aware of how differently she talks. But yeah, it's not logical …
Yeah, their friendship and sense of family kinda came out of the blue, since we never much saw their relationship develop from the point when Burnham joined the crew of the Discovery. Sure, they seemed like they had buried the hatched and accepted each other on the ship, but an actual friendship? When did this happen?
I had the same thought while watching the farewell scene on the bridge and his “death scene” after that: They sure wouldn't kill off a main character just like that. Doug Jones' very good acting almost sold me on the idea that they might actually write him out of the show, but ultimately I didn't fall for it for one second.
Really?! I would never have thought that those could be anything but windows to the outside. What makes you think they are merely simulating light? Aren't they styled exactly like the windows elsewhere on the ship?
My guess: Absolutely nothing. I appreciate that they are trying to do more traditional space exploration Star Trek-y stuff, but the whole “knowledge of 100,000 years” thing seemed just like a throwaway line and nothing that will ever amount to any kind of significance. I'd love to be wrong on this, though.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't she the chief science officer on the ship? They were discussing a science related dilemma after all.
I love this idea. Looking forward to where they are going with this.
I completely agree. The writers seem to think that they need to rectify or comment on everything that fans have complained about as inaccurate in season one. There must be a stated reason for Klingons having hair now, the avoidance of holo-communication must be discussed, the Enterprise's colorful uniforms have to be called out in dialog etc. It's tiresome and completely unnecessary.
Yeah, that threw me for a loop as well. Also, the poor guy they were treating sure didn't appreciate them distracting his doctor in the middle of his treatment!
Very interesting thoughts! I never had looked at it that way, but yeah, were there such a thing as a Universal Translator, language as we know it today might not exist in reality.
The room has “no elements of engineering”? You mean other that the big ol' warp core that's always visible in the background?
I agree. This episodes was rather heavy on the ol' technobabble. See, one can dislike something about Discovery which they dislike elsewhere in Trek as well.
I'm not disputing that this is the approach Discovery has taken or that the old “senior officers = main characters” approach was problematic, but the way they are doing it here often has me wondering why we don't seem to see some department heads at all. I mean, surely the chief engineer must have been involved in all the technical problems they encountered in season one. So yeah, senior officers don't need to be the main characters, but not having some senior officers at all seems just implausible.
Then where are controls for warp drive, where are consoles, screens... All that's there in the room is a few consoles that control spore drive. I'm guessing they made that room spore drive control and that real engineering is somewhere near and we will see it later.
I think some of the perceptions here about friendship are interesting. I have a best friend, who is essentially a brother of mine. He has 3 half-siblings. The only reason I even know this is because our other friend, who is equally as close, and knew him since he was a baby, knows this as a matter of course.
It's never been mentioned between us. It's never come up. I've never met them.
People have this weird perception that in order for two people to be close, they must obviously know everything about each other. It simply isn't true, nor is it realistic.
People's relationships are often based upon their present and their mutual past. I find it MUCH more rare that people delve into family history and / or their unrelated pasts.
Even in marriages this is often true.
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There was no establishing shot, but it's implied they were at Spacedock at the beginning of the episode.
For those folks who found the episode, rushed...
Watch it a second time.
With a second viewing, you'll have foreknowledge of the events to come and your more apt to pick up on story details your mind might have glossed over with one viewing, thus creating the sense of a quickly paced story.
I usually watch the episodes one or two days later, so I have time to contemplate what I've seen.
I also like to read other's thought's about what we've collectively watched together and add that to my own internal perceptions.
It is interesting, though...because it does lend some validity to the criticism that the show is just paced very fast. I find myself missing a fair chunk of what is happening as well, simply because the dialogue and events happen so quickly. I watched "New Eden" again last night, for example, and it was amazing how much more I picked up and how much more sense it made than my initial viewing.
Agree. They made it (fairly?) clear that they were visiting space dock while the Enterprise was under repair.
A truly awful episode with abysmal writing and with the most contrived "explanation" why we don't see holographic communication later: A lowly Federation captain dislikes them. 
At least now they can save some money by not having to animate Saru's ganglia anymore.
At least now they can save some money by not having to animate Saru's ganglia anymore.
nope, that happens with every show i watch - i'm too fixated on the main things that i just don't get all the ornaments - makes rewatching even more fun.
as a example i totally missed the 'tube shot' of the turbo lift when i watched and rewatched the episode (it's irrelevant to the plot) and had to watch it a third time to see it.
when i read people discuss that after they have seen it just once i tend to see only two possibilites. those guys ...
- are
robotsborg
- just watch the show to blow holes into it
A truly awful episode with abysmal writing and with the most contrived "explanation" why we don't see holographic communication later: A lowly Federation captain dislikes them.
At least now they can save some money by not having to animate Saru's ganglia anymore.
You couldn't be more wrong.
A truly awful episode with abysmal writing and with the most contrived "explanation" why we don't see holographic communication later: A lowly Federation captain dislikes them.
At least now they can save some money by not having to animate Saru's ganglia anymore.
The Ganglia isn't CG.
You make a compelling argument, I'll grant you, but the problem is "Discovery" is still fundamentally a show on a ship, about a ship. It's right there in the name!
So when we're naturally spending a ton of time on the bridge, it's frustrating that over half of the familiar faces doing the important jobs ON that bridge are little more than glorified extras.
Like I said, there's no reason Stamets couldn't also be the chief engineer. I think he's a great character and giving him that job would have just given him more significance in terms of plot as the show moves forward and (presumably, eventually) beyond the spore drive storyline.
Yes, Voyager and Enterprise didn't use their casts very well because they many bland or uninteresting characters. Kim, Chakotay, Mayweather....these are arguably the most dull, least dynamic characters in Trek history.
And TNG did have that problem, too, with the Conn-of-the-week officer, who often times was literally an extra who never got to speak. That wasn't by design, of course, but it was a running change when that show realized they also should probably have a chief engineer instead of a series of one-off co-stars filling the role and after Wil Wheaton left the show.
Now Discovery has that problem times four or five. It's weird that Saru, Burnham and Tilly keep switching off at the science station. A little more thought could have found ways to avoid that problem and give them more specific strengths.
You can come up with compelling characters and then find out where to put them on the bridge. It doesn't have to be the other way around. DSC does have some good characters, I think Saru, Tilly and Stamets are strong characters, but their skillsets overlap to a frustrating degree, while we are still dealing with utterly undeveloped blanks doing 75% of the other vital jobs on the ship. It's just poor planning.
I could point out that we saw several (four, I think) consoles in that room in season one, but that's not even the point I was trying to refute. You were saying there were no elements of engineering, which clearly there were.
Hm, but later in Pike's ready room they say Number One is “on her way to spacedock”. So I don't think that's where they were and where they picked her up.
I'm pretty sure it was in many scenes. In some it was a practical effect, though. But when we saw them emerge and move they were CGI, I think.
I'm sorry, but I'm 100% with @cultcross on this one.
The thing that Discovery is doing differently is that each bridge crew member isn't automatically a "main character" and nor are they the random background extras who trade out every week like Ensign Smith and Lt. Jones. It's cool that they have developed main characters who specialize in things away from the bridge and those trope-y Trek roles that are intensely boring and stale now.
It's equally cool that the characters they have occupying other roles on the bridge have names and some personality traits other than a blank stare and "aye sir." They have distinguishing physical attributes, personality quirks, etc. that make them more interesting than cardboard cut-outs, but they are not intended to be part of the main story.
It amazes me how many fans can't appreciate this approach. It does go to show just how stuck in the "old way of doing things" we can be sometimes.
You know, I think you're right. We're probably supposed to presume that they had a rendezvous somewhere along their mission path.
No, they did not have forcefields like we've seen in Discovery in TOS (imagine if they could contain intruders as they did the spore blob thing!). The earliest they appeared was Generations, and they were used in many TNG and Voyager episodes.
TOS forcefields had large visible emitters around brig doors.
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