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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x04 - "An Obol for Charon"

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- Universal translator fail. I liked this, but I wish it actually just revealed the languages that all the characters were actually speaking. Would have been interesting to see who is actually speaking English. Probably far less people than we think.

Good idea, I would laugh if Ariam spoke Mandarin, Osu spoke Russian, the comms officer spoke Italian and the Navigator spoke some Andorian language with only Pike, Burnham and Saru speaking English.
They should have shown their mouths speaking English but their TV audience hearing the foreign languages.
One more negative, are there no other medical personnel on the ship, what were Pike and Burnham doing assisting the doctor?
 
I really, really hope one of the things which is fixed in the post Berg-Harberts show is the sound mixing. It's been universally terrible so far, even in the great episodes this season. Dialogue is always mixed low, and music and/or ambient sounds are always playing at the same time people are speaking. It's really distracting, and makes me miss out on at least a few lines of dialogue every single episode.
 
I so agree, treat it like TMP, the tech was always part of the 23rd century.
What next, another reason why female captains exist in Starfleet, why Starfleet is not called the UESPA anymore? PStop giving in universe reasons to production design changes/
How many present day 20 something year old humans have a 300 year old song as their favourite? That scene was too corny
However I give it an 8.5, love Linus, more of him please! The Babel scene was funny, Reno and Stamets mutual hate fest- thumbs up! Finally that scene between Saru and Burnham, there was no dry eye in my house. The Tilly situation, well they had to come up with a way to end spore hopping so its as good as any.
When I was 20 (and granted that was 18 years ago), my favorite composer was J.S. Bach, and I listened to "classical" music avidly. I also listened to Green Day, Nine Inch Nails, Metallica, Christina Aguilera, and just about every Motown song you can think of which was available at the time. Don't get in the frame of mind that because 20 somethings might listen to pop or play their cell phones all the time that they wouldn't appreciate music centuries older than themselves.
 
This episode was hands down fantastic. I only gave it a 9 because DSC has been butter on a roll this season and am fully expecting to be at least once more completely blown away.

So much good in this, a strong A/B story with a GOOD amount of comedy from our C story (which, overall is the weakest of the three, but still entertaining). The character pieces and intimate moments completely sell this episode though. Honestly, we would have seen each of these stories as their own A stories back in the day with their own half-hearted B stories, but this...this was strong, strong, strong. Pacing was a little hectic at first, but I think that overall the episode handled the three stories very fairly, with a strong enough connecting theme through the first two that really steals the show from Tilly and Stamets.

I loved it. This is a great example of what I liked (and disliked) about ENT, where we would see the DNA of very familiar episodes mixed together into something new and maybe half as good most of the time. I love seeing Star Trek in Star Trek, but if you're going to do something that we've seen before, it should be done in a way that sells it as a different, new piece. For me, this was the best 'remix' episode I could have asked for, a successful evolution of the thinking that went behind ENT writing, with such a wonderfully Star Trek alien with a wonderfully Star Trek purpose. Attempting to write its own epitaph to whomever might be able to listen... powerful sci-fi concept, and so lovely and sad.

Not gonna lie, Doug Jones had me. I knew in my lemon heart that he couldn't possibly die, that we would have known, that someone on this board would have found some random ass statement from him that would hint him leaving and this would have been it. But I wasn't ready to believe that because I was preparing for the ultimate heart break it would have caused if I didn't mentally prepare myself while he was on his death bed of grass. The writing was really strong in this episode, and connecting the themes of family, brothers, sisters, life and death, and the underlying theme of forgiveness certainly brought a tear-to-me-eye. I loved how it all fit together so perfectly, and yeah, it could be called hamfisted drama, but its Star Trek! Fist those hams till the cows come home if this is how they're going to do it. I knew I was in for something heart breaking when all the bridge crew stood up, which was SO MUCH MORE MEANINGFUL now that we know their goddamn names and they have lines and the crew actually seem to be something akin to friends.

AND A MEETING! THEY HAD A MEETING!

Why was Michael at the head of the conference table? She isn’t the leading rank there.
Also, is it English or Federation standard? They’ve said both.

Saru probably deferred to her since he was literally dying, but also, she is heading the signal research and that appears to be what the meeting was about? I forget, I was too excited they were actually having a meeting. The meeting had already started, so Saru might have began it off-camera before he gave the floor to Michael as we see in many conference room scenes.

As for Federation Standard and English, my guess would be that Federation Standard is the official name for the language throughout the Federation, what aliens refer to it (as in the alien word for Federation + the alien word for Standard) but English is the English-speaking, Earth-specific name for it. Like how China is the English word for China, not the Chinese word. Or how the official language of China is Mandarin, but there are a billion different Chinese languages, but we often just say, 'He speaks Chinese.'

And it was very, very nice to see the 'old' Stamets back in action. Just as I suspected, he and Jett Reno paired together is amazing and I want a whole spinoff about them on a SCE ship together just fixing things and arguing. Just literally the two of them. Plus, the majority of the technobabble was actual science but delivered in the Star Trek complicated to analogy way. I love that it's almost become a running joke within the writing to make that analogy so obvious, I half expect the character to wink at the screen when they say it.

"Like a balloon! ...and something bad happens!"
- Fry

I can't wait to watch it again tonight!

Fond Memories elicited:
- Tin Man
- V'ger
- Galaxy's Child
- Disaster
- Imaginary Friend (Maybe this wasn't exactly a fond memory)
- TWOK (albeit a much more sinister version of the radiation scene, but also the emotional gut-punch of Kirk/Spock/Michael/Saru)
- TVH (Specifically the transmission and 'DRILLING HOLES IN HIS HEAD WON'T SOLVE ANYTHING!' except it did!)
 
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Wow ... Another 9 from me.

How can anybody not like this show?

I think this is the episode that I decided I'm actually a Discovery fan now. I'm not just watching it because it's Trek, and flawed but with potential. Now it's actually enjoyable to me. Though there still are a bunch of niggling flaws (mostly related to production, honestly) which mean a perfect score isn't coming from me any time soon.
 
I really, really hope one of the things which is fixed in the post Berg-Harberts show is the sound mixing. It's been universally terrible so far, even in the great episodes this season. Dialogue is always mixed low, and music and/or ambient sounds are always playing at the same time people are speaking. It's really distracting, and makes me miss out on at least a few lines of dialogue every single episode.
The musical score constantly playing, including over the dialogue (and often superfluously punctuating that dialogue) has seemed to become a "thing" with some TV dramas these days.
I dislike it more than a fake laugh-track for a sitcom.
 
During the UT infection, I half-expected to see Batman and Robin make a discreet exit through the window.

Seriously? Discovery got a UTI?
(shudders)
 
The musical score constantly playing, including over the dialogue (and often superfluously punctuating that dialogue) has seemed to become a "thing" with some TV dramas these days.
I dislike it more than a fake laugh-track for a sitcom.

I could deal with it if it were like 50% lower. I mean, I disagree with the Berman-era Trek idea that music has to be "aural wallpaper" you never notice. But when people are talking, that's what it should be. I should never be noticing the music when someone is speaking.
 
I think this is the episode that I decided I'm actually a Discovery fan now. I'm not just watching it because it's Trek, and flawed but with potential. Now it's actually enjoyable to me. Though there still are a bunch of niggling flaws (mostly related to production, honestly) which mean a perfect score isn't coming from me any time soon.

Definitely better than last season, by far. Though I wish we could just jettison the season 1 baggage. I really struggled to care about last week's episode, even though it had some of the better Klingon moments we've seen in a while.

Overall, I wouldn't mind if we never saw L'Rell, Ash or Eeeevil Georgiou again.
 
When I was 20 (and granted that was 18 years ago), my favorite composer was J.S. Bach, and I listened to "classical" music avidly. I also listened to Green Day, Nine Inch Nails, Metallica, Christina Aguilera, and just about every Motown song you can think of which was available at the time. Don't get in the frame of mind that because 20 somethings might listen to pop or play their cell phones all the time that they wouldn't appreciate music centuries older than themselves.
It is not the first time Star Trek uses music from our living memory as something the crew enjoys, Stamet's uncle playing in a Beatles tribute band, Tilly singing Bowie and Beyond playing Beastie boys music. Be creative and make some shit up that sounds futuristic, mention Andorian music or Tellarite music, something not so parochial to the audience.
At least TOS made something up with Uhura singing Beyond Antares. I would have been impressed if Tilly said I like N'Gbu band from the 22nd century and sang something the audience could not identify with.
 
... Though there still are a bunch of niggling flaws (mostly related to production, honestly) which mean a perfect score isn't coming from me any time soon.
Yes. That's the same issue I have, especially with this last episode.

The general story was so damn interesting and very good Star Trekky sci-fi. It has been excellent from a story concept standpoint. However, the production execution of that story often lacking tidiness and tightness, with this past episode being the least tidy one yet (messy, in fact).
 
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Do you actually need to pay for usage rights if a character sings a few lines of a pop song barely in key, with no musical accompaniment?
 
I think this is the episode that I decided I'm actually a Discovery fan now. I'm not just watching it because it's Trek, and flawed but with potential. Now it's actually enjoyable to me. Though there still are a bunch of niggling flaws (mostly related to production, honestly) which mean a perfect score isn't coming from me any time soon.

Temba, his arms wide!
 
It is not the first time Star Trek uses music from our living memory as something the crew enjoys, Stamet's uncle playing in a Beatles tribute band, Tilly singing Bowie and Beyond playing Beastie boys music. Be creative and make some shit up that sounds futuristic, mention Andorian music or Tellarite music, something not so parochial to the audience.
At least TOS made something up with Uhura singing Beyond Antares.
Do you believe humans will be speaking in modern U.S. English 250 years from now? There's authenticity for the sake of immersion, and then there's just disconnecting from your audience and making it more difficult for them to anchor their ability to relate to the crew. Plus, David Bowie is timeless, his words poignant, and as a clearly intelligent woman, Tilly probably finds comfort and solace, a connection in his words as he sings, the emotion in his voice, the message of his protagonists bravery as he hurls himself into the void with no hope of ever returning home, because Tilly knows that even though he sacrificed himself to further humanity's outward expansion, they made it. She's living proof.

We live in the digital age, where music doesn't die because it is shared across the world, and will be taken with us should we reach the stars.

One of my favorite songs, Spirit in the Sky by Norman Greenbaum, is already 50 years old. Is it really that far fetched?
 
Do you actually need to pay for usage rights if a character sings a few lines of a pop song barely in key, with no musical accompaniment?

Yes, very much so. I think in general if something like 3 to 5 consecutive words are the same (without even mentioning the name of the piece) it has to be cited. Although it would be amusing if usage rights did not apply on the basis that the character sing it poorly, lol.
 
Do you believe humans will be speaking in modern U.S. English 250 years from now? There's authenticity for the sake of immersion, and then there's just disconnecting from your audience and making it more difficult for them to anchor their ability to relate to the crew. Plus, David Bowie is timeless, his words poignant, and as a clearly intelligent woman, Tilly probably finds comfort and solace in his words as he sings, the emotion in his voice. We live in the digital age, where music doesn't die because it is shared across the world, and will be taken with us should we reach the stars.

The way the "UTI" worked this episode - that it showed people not only flawlessly speaking "foreign" languages, but also with their lips matching the sounds onscreen - made it clear once and for all that how the UT is shown in Trek is a contrivance for the sake of performance, not how things would "actually look" in the Star Trek universe.
 
The way the "UTI" worked this episode - that it showed people not only flawlessly speaking "foreign" languages, but also with their lips matching the sounds onscreen - made it clear once and for all that how the UT is shown in Trek is a contrivance for the sake of performance, not how things would "actually look" in the Star Trek universe.
Well yeah, because their lips have always (or almost always) matched up with what was on screen. Having an actor speak one way, and then overdubbing it with the understandable language would cost more for little purpose.
 
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