Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x11 - "The Wolf Inside"

[Agony_Boothb]

Council of Stametses

I wonder if we'll get to meet Dumb Stamets

 

[SolarisOne]

Like many people, I would be much happier if the writers didn't telegraph pretty much every major development long before they actually execute it.

 

[Aaron McGuire]

Council of Stametses

I would love to see alternate Stametses (Stametsi?) from various universes.

 

[The Memetic Susurrus]

Folks, right from the horse's mouth: Voq's skeleton was overlaid with Ash Tyler's organs, skin, etc. and some kind of consciousness-transfer as well.

He's Frankenstein's Monster crossed with the Manchurian Candidate (more the remake than the original).

http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/01...ylers-journey?abthid=5a5c15c5143251f34c000007

 

[eschaton]

And, to be honest, Tilly is a cadet, a fourth-year one, at that. As she alluded to in her conversation with Saru, she's just about done with the academy. She should be graduating and, if that's the case, it's unlikely she'll keep a post with the Discovery. That leaves us with Burnham--who, as I've said before, has many narrative problems they're going to have to handle adroitly if they don't want to just shatter suspension of disbelief completely--and Saru, out of the main cast.

Now, of course, we have the rest of the bridge crew and there's a chance for us to finally see the CMO and whatnot, if they want to go down that route, but...Season 2 could look very, very different from this one, if things continue as we think they will.

Actually, we might not even have Burnham. Remember that her re-reinstatement was done by Lorca (who it looks like might be an imposter) and she believes that she will go back to prison at the end of the war. So if they go back to their prime universe, absent some sort of special dispensation by Starfleet, SMG shouldn't continue on the show either.

 

[eschaton]

Folks, right from the horse's mouth: Voq's skeleton was overlaid with Ash Tyler's organs, skin, etc. and some kind of consciousness-transfer as well.

He's Frankenstein's Monster crossed with the Manchurian Candidate (more the remake than the original).

http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/01...ylers-journey?abthid=5a5c15c5143251f34c000007

From what Latif says, it doesn't sound like this will ever be explicitly addressed in show however. Otherwise he wouldn't have been allowed to give spoilers.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's a TV show, characters will return no matter what has happened.

 

[David cgc]

People asking where this Ash Tyler came from. Do you all not remember that Starfleet officer that was killed in the Klingon cell? Also had the same insignia.

There's not a lot of time (one scene-change) for a terrifyingly major surgery between Mr. Catatonia being stomped and Tyler showing up, and his first scene makes it clear he and Mudd have already met.

Like many people, I would be much happier if the writers didn't telegraph pretty much every major development long before they actually execute it.

Well, this is what happens when everyone complains about Lost and Battlestar Galactica making it up as they go along. The real issue is that in the internet-age, the "watercooler conversation" is a lot larger, so it's virtually certain that someone, somewhere, will have the right interpretation of what the show is setting up, and it'll spread because it's recognizably plausible.

 

[eschaton]

It's a TV show, characters will return no matter what has happened.

Yes, I know. It's like all those teen dramas which inexplicably have the characters not go away to college when they graduate to give an excuse for another season.

That doesn't mean they haven't potentially painted themselves into a corner with the season arc.

 

[KlingonCereal]

Interesting episode. We're finally starting to see the development of a properly serialized Star Trek series. With that said, I think we have a lot going on at once. First and foremost you have the Discovery crew trapped in the wrong universe, then you have Paul stuck in some odd state, then you have Burnham trying to save the resistance, then you have the realization of who Ash really is, then you have the Lorca being tortured, then you have the Discovery crew working also trying to gather intel related to peace in their home universe, and -- I could go on.

That isn't to say this episode wasn't enjoyable or that I'm not eager for next week's episode. I just worry that the show is trying to handle too much at once, which might bog down the experience. I'm sure they have an end goal in mind and everything will wrap up nicely nevertheless.

If I could, however, inject for a moment a fanfiction-esque idea: let's not return. Let's see the Discovery crew work to aid the resistance against the Terran empire. Go around saving rebal bases. Destroying the Terran starships.

 

[Syd Shanshala]

I’ve been banking on Saru being captain for season 2 with Michael as first officer. Our first non human captain. I’m sad but I don’t think Jason isaacs will be back

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes, I know. It's like all those teen dramas which inexplicably have the characters not go away to college when they graduate to give an excuse for another season.

That doesn't mean they haven't potentially painted themselves into a corner with the season arc.

Most long running series do even without a "season arc". Most of TOS's cast should have transferred off the ship long before the film series. On TNG, Riker should have had his own ship before the series ended.

 

[Noname Given]

Given nothing happened last week that wasn't easily predicted months ago his suggestion does not bode well for the writing quality of future episodes.

Really?

- You figured Culber was going to be killed by Tyler/Voq (his neck snapped clean....)

- That the Discovery crew would attempt to pass themselves off as the MU Discovery by modifying their ship and uniforms...

- That Tilley was Captain of I.S.S. Discovery...

- That they'd find records on the crossover of the U.S.S. Discovery from the Prime Universe and they'd try to use said records to return to the Prime Universe...]

- That MU Burnham was Captain of I.S.S. Shenzhou and PU Burnham would attempt to take her place...

- That the I.S.S. Discovery swapped Universes with the PU Discovery...

Yeah, NOTHING happened that you hadn't already predicted weeks ago, eh? Please point me to those posts by you or others predicting all the above...

 

[The Memetic Susurrus]

Actually, we might not even have Burnham. Remember that her re-reinstatement was done by Lorca (who it looks like might be an imposter) and she believes that she will go back to prison at the end of the war. So if they go back to their prime universe, absent some sort of special dispensation by Starfleet, SMG shouldn't continue on the show either.

And I would be fine with that.

You know, now that I'm thinking about it, this whole show is positively littered with missed opportunities. Burnham could have been a sympathetic character. Tyler could have been a wonderfully nuanced story of PTSD, trauma, and sexual abuse of a man by a woman (an alien woman, at that). Lorca could have been an arc dealing with the serial microtraumas of wartime, emotional numbing, and perhaps Acute Stress Disorder. Saru could have been an interesting exploration of, frankly, congenital cowardice as a virtue rather a defect. Detmer could have had a long storyline of how she has to forgive Burnham for the events she may justifiably believe damaged her. Stamets could have evolved over the seasons from a naïve pacifist to someone who has to come to grips with the fact that the universe, frankly, doesn't give a rat's turd about his scruples. Culber could have had a story-arc that saw him attempt to wrestle with the fact that his lover put himself in danger over and over again and, unfortunately for Culber, medical ethics forbade him from being able to treat Stamets the way he wanted to.

On and on we go. But we're not going to get that, are we?

Missed opportunities...

I still love the show but, perhaps, I see what could have been as being a tad better than what we (apparently; they could still surprise us) have now.

 

[ISS-Magnum]

A lot of good moments, but the whole away mission/peace talks story was a little boring.

 

[eschaton]

Most long running series do even without a "season arc". Most of TOS's cast should have transferred off the ship long before the film series. On TNG, Riker should have had his own ship before the series ended.

I think it's a bit different though. Riker just inexplicably lost his ambition. In Discovery's case, at least one of the main cast isn't a Starfleet officer, another may not be, and the third could ascend into a higher plane of existence or something.

I know that Bryan Fuller's original vision was that each season of Discovery would be a different ship, cast, and crew, which means this season was supposed to end with some finality for all of the characters. The network indicated they didn't want to do that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they left some of his original arc in the back end, complicating setting up a second season a bit.

 

[eschaton]

And I would be fine with that.

You know, now that I'm thinking about it, this whole show is positively littered with missed opportunities. Burnham could have been a sympathetic character. Tyler could have been a wonderfully nuanced story of PTSD, trauma, and sexual abuse of a man by a woman (an alien woman, at that). Lorca could have been an arc dealing with the serial microtraumas of wartime, emotional numbing, and perhaps Acute Stress Disorder. Saru could have been an interesting exploration of, frankly, congenital cowardice as a virtue rather a defect. Detmer could have had a long storyline of how she has to forgive Burnham for the events she may justifiably believe damaged her. Stamets could have evolved over the seasons from a naïve pacifist to someone who has to come to grips with the fact that the universe, frankly, doesn't give a rat's turd about his scruples. Culber could have had a story-arc that saw him attempt to wrestle with the fact that his lover put himself in danger over and over again and, unfortunately for Culber, medical ethics forbade him from being able to treat Stamets the way he wanted to.

On and on we go. But we're not going to get that, are we?

Missed opportunities...

I still love the show but, perhaps, I see what could have been as being a tad better than what we (apparently; they could still surprise us) have now.

Sometimes I feel like this show took the wrong lessons from modern TV. That is to say, the most important thing is serializing the characterization, rather than the plot. Aside from the slow unwinding of Ash Tyler, I don't think there has been any consistent character arcs over the course of the show to date.

 

[SolarisOne]

I just had a thought. Lorca could have reacted to Georgiou, not because he's MU, but because he knows her? Though it's not canon, the upcoming novel by Dayton Ward has them working together, back before she was captain of the Shenzhou. Perhaps the show writers are thinking the same kind of thing--that their paths crossed at some point in the past?

It would be refreshing for them to throw a curveball like that.

 

[Shon T'Hara]

The Shenzhou stuff was 10/10, but the Disco part was 4/10 at best. Given that this was one of the longest eps, they could've cut all the Disco parts except Tyler's rescue, then backfilled as necessary next week.

 

[Amaris]

There's not a lot of time (one scene-change) for a terrifyingly major surgery between Mr. Catatonia being stomped and Tyler showing up, and his first scene makes it clear he and Mudd have already met.



Well, this is what happens when everyone complains about Lost and Battlestar Galactica making it up as they go along. The real issue is that in the internet-age, the "watercooler conversation" is a lot larger, so it's virtually certain that someone, somewhere, will have the right interpretation of what the show is setting up, and it'll spread because it's recognizably plausible.

This. I don't care if it's telegraphed, I just want it to be entertaining. As long as I enjoy the story, the path to how they arrive, that's why I'm watching.