Spoilers Tech issue with 1x06

[Noname Given]

There are no words for tonight's episode? Holodecks are not supposed to exist in this timeline

Writers do not give a shit about canon. Canon be damned!



http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Holodeck

You're evidence is from a Star trek series that basically shows "The Eugenics Wars" never happened?
See: ST:YOY - "Future's End I and II" <--- My, pot, meet kettle.

Oh and BTW - go check out the TAS episode: "Practical Joker"

But yeah, there was a production staff that didn't seem to care about canon more than the rest; but it was the staff of a certain Star Trek show that ran from 1995 - 2001 and wrote the Female Captain as if she were Bipolar.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You're evidence is from a Star trek series that basically shows "The Eugenics Wars" never happened?
See: ST:YOY - "Future's End I and II"

Those episodes showed nothing of the kind.

Sure, L.A. doesn't show any evidence of the Eugenics Wars, but the U.S. wasn't involved in those wars in the first place. So it's understandable that there'd be no evidence of them in L.A.

 

[Succubint]

The clothing made on the DISCO is "matter synthesis", not replication as TNG knows it. It is very explicit with the computer saying so both times that Burnham gets a uniform. Presumably the food at the mess hall is also synthesized from recycled matter.

Doesn't ENT also mention this?

 

[Noname Given]

Those episodes showed nothing of the kind.

Sure, L.A. doesn't show any evidence of the Eugenics Wars, but the U.S. wasn't involved in those wars in the first place. So it's understandable that there'd be no evidence of them in L.A.

ORLY?:
TOS - "Space Seed":
http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/24.htm

KIRK: How many alive?

SCOTT [OC]: Twelve units have malfunctioned, leaving seventy two still operating. Thirty of those are women.

KIRK: Kirk out. Seventy two alive. A group of people dating back to the 1990s. A discovery of some importance, Mister Spock. There are a great many unanswered questions about those years.

SPOCK: A strange, violent period in your history. I find no record what so ever of an SS Botany Bay. Captain, the DY-100 class vessel was designed for interplanetary travel only. With simple nuclear-powered engines, star travel was considered impractical at that time. It was ten thousand to one against their making it to another star system. And why no record of the trip?
KIRK: Botany Bay. That was the name of a penal colony on shores of Australia, wasn't it? If they took that name for their vessel
SPOCK: If you're suggesting this was a penal deportation vessel, you've arrived at a totally illogical conclusion.
KIRK: Oh?
SPOCK: Your Earth was on the verge of a dark ages. Whole populations were being bombed out of existence. A group of criminals could have been dealt with far more efficiently than wasting one of their most advanced spaceships.

^^^
Clearly someone here doesn't pay attention to TOS canon.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ And perhaps you can show me exactly where in the aforementioned quote, it specifically mentions the USA?

 

[Dukhat]

Those episodes showed nothing of the kind.

Sure, L.A. doesn't show any evidence of the Eugenics Wars, but the U.S. wasn't involved in those wars in the first place. So it's understandable that there'd be no evidence of them in L.A.

There's no canon evidence that the US wasn't involved in the Eugenics Wars. There was never anything said about any specific countries.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There's no canon evidence that the US wasn't involved in the Eugenics Wars.

And no evidence that it WAS, either. Besides, you can't prove a negative.

There was never anything said about any specific countries.

Exactly.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Those episodes showed nothing of the kind.

Sure, L.A. doesn't show any evidence of the Eugenics Wars, but the U.S. wasn't involved in those wars in the first place. So it's understandable that there'd be no evidence of them in L.A.

Say's who? We know Archer's great-grandfather, presumably an American, fought in North Africa. And that Khan ruled Western and Southern Asia. Other Augments took control in forty other nations. No information where those nations are. One could be Canada for all we know.

 

[Dukhat]

And no evidence that it WAS, either. Besides, you can't prove a negative.

Er, no, you said specifically that the US was NOT involved in the war. That is an incorrect statement, as you don't have canon evidence that that was the case.

 

[Noname Given]

^ And perhaps you can show me exactly where in the aforementioned quote, it specifically mentions the USA?

Oh please:

SPOCK: There is that possibility, Captain. His age would be correct. In 1993, a group of these young supermen did seize power simultaneously in over forty nations.

KIRK: Well, they were hardly supermen. They were aggressive, arrogant. They began to battle among themselves.

^^^
between this and Spock saying the world was on the verge of a 'Dark Ages' are you really going to try and claim that a major world power like the U.S. sat out of this conflict? It wasn't some minor conflict, in all of Trek lore it's pretty much described as a World War.

 

[Nerys Myk]

And no evidence that it WAS, either. Besides, you can't prove a negative.



Exactly.

You realize that doesn't help your claim, right? You've gone from 100% certainty to maybe

 

[Charles Phipps]

Even the Voyager producers said they didn't do the Eugenics Wars because most of their fans didn't care (i.e. general audiences).

Accept and move on.

Trek has some plot holes--life goes on.

 

[dinzy]

The DSC holodeck is the Atari 2600 of holodecks and the TNG one is the Playstation ~20 of holodecks. FFS we can get a similar, albeit far more primitive, battle experience to what was shown last night in 1st gen VR units today.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Even the Voyager producers said they didn't do the Eugenics Wars because most of their fans didn't care (i.e. general audiences).

Accept and move on.

Trek has some plot holes--life goes on.

The holy script does not have plot holes!!!! Take that back!!!!!

 

[zar]

The "food slots" or "food synthesizers" are canon, now can you point out where it says they function like replicators? Janeway and Kim were speaking about the post-5 year mission era, events from the Star Trek 6 movie no less (year 2293), when they said the technology was in its early stages. Early stages does not mean common place on every star ship like we see a decade before Kirk 37 years earlier (year 2256). World Wide Web was created in 1991. 37 years before that they were still over a decade away from the early stages of the internet.

So let me get this straight. You're denying that TNG replicators were the next generation of TOS food synthesizers (which they quite literally were), and you're now taking my analogy of the internet as a rigid standard of "early stages of tech" and extrapolating that the development history of any fictional tech must span exactly that many years.

Are you sure these are the positions you want to defend?

 

[marsh8472]

You're evidence is from a Star trek series that basically shows "The Eugenics Wars" never happened?
See: ST:YOY - "Future's End I and II" <--- My, pot, meet kettle.

Oh and BTW - go check out the TAS episode: "Practical Joker"

But yeah, there was a production staff that didn't seem to care about canon more than the rest; but it was the staff of a certain Star Trek show that ran from 1995 - 2001 and wrote the Female Captain as if she were Bipolar.

Despite no explicit allusion to the Eugenics Wars here, Rain Robinson has a toy model of the SS Botany Bay near her window and a photograph – stuck to a filing cabinet in her office – that depicts the same sleeper ship's launch; the Botany Bay is established

 

[zar]

You realize that doesn't help your claim, right? You've gone from 100% certainty to maybe

Er... you realize that's where this started, right? Someone made the claim that Future's End showed that the wars never happened. The whole point was that there never was certainty about where the wars were, so there can't be an inconsistency. If anything, we know that they weren't in LA thanks to VOY.

Man, it's like this is a thread dedicated to non-issues now. Come on guys, VOY had problems, but this wasn't one of them. It's possible for two completely unrelated events to take place on Earth within the same year without referencing each other.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Er... you realize that's where this started, right? Someone made the claim that Future's End showed that the wars never happened. The whole point was that there never was certainty about where the wars were, so there can't be an inconsistency. If anything, we know that they weren't in LA thanks to VOY.

Man, it's like this is a thread dedicated to non-issues now. Come on guys, VOY had problems, but this wasn't one of them. It's possible for two completely unrelated events to take place on Earth within the same year without referencing each other.

Yeah that's my point "insufficient data". Maybe the US was unaffected. Maybe it was in the thick of it. Maybe it just provided troops. We don't know.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Despite no explicit allusion to the Eugenics Wars here, Rain Robinson has a toy model of the SS Botany Bay near her window and a photograph – stuck to a filing cabinet in her office – that depicts the same sleeper ship's launch; the Botany Bay is established

I generally take the view of Star Trek continuity as I do with Doctor Who's. Everything is canon but what is canon at that moment due to all the time travel and meddling is debatable. In the case of those episodes, the Voyager was dealing with Steve Jobs actually being a guy who stole alien tech.

Presumably, the Time Police cleaned up after him.

 

[marsh8472]

Oh yes. Where does one store enough food and water to feed hundreds of people for extended journeys of several years?

I've already pointed out that Kirk said in TOS that they could manufacture huge amounts of things on their ship. What did he mean by that? They make them in the shop?

From another angle: show us where it says they DON'T act like replicators.

So from "Catspaw"...

KOROB: Hopefully I can change that attitude.
(The food vanishes and their plates are now filled with cut gemstones.)
MCCOY: These look real.
KOROB: They are, I assure you. Diamonds, rubies, emeralds, sapphires. All the crystalline forms that you cherish above all things. A fortune of them for each of you if you leave here without further inquiry.
KIRK: We could manufacture a ton of these on our ship. They mean nothing to us.

They can manufacture a ton of gemstones on their ship and can feed/cloth themselves. You don't know how they can do that without replication technology therefore it was done with replication technology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance. It's not my job to explain how they do it without replication technology. The burden of proof is on you to prove that they can.