Spoilers Tech issue with 1x06

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by RobertCardassian, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. RobertCardassian

    RobertCardassian Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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  2. RobertCardassian

    RobertCardassian Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Just waiting for the peanut gallery to make an excuse for this... "well, it's not that bad!"
     
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  3. alex08060

    alex08060 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Discovery is much pretty much using prototype technology like the spore driver so officially it is not fully deploy into star ships yet.
     
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  4. RobertCardassian

    RobertCardassian Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Excuses!
     
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  5. SolarisOne

    SolarisOne Commander Red Shirt

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    As much as it bothered me, to be fair there is no indication that this "holodeck" is anywhere near as advanced as a TNG one. If anything, the Klingon holograms flickering indicates that they're true holograms--three dimensional images, and not the asspull versions featured during the TNG-era.

    Also, there are holograms in TAS.
     
  6. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What we saw tonight was not holodeck technology as previously defined by Star Trek. It was an immersive virtual reality simulation.

    Also, even if you were to define what we saw as being holodeck technology, its inclusion in the 23rd Century would be a retcon, and retconning is not new to Star Trek and is not and has never been a problem in the past.
     
  7. RobertCardassian

    RobertCardassian Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    More excuses
     
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  8. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ My comments are not an excuse; they're a fact-based rejection of your complaint.
     
  9. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    The only excuse necessary (for anything) is most of the technology in TOS is antiquated - even by today's standards. Dismissing that out of some need to hold on to some false sense of world-building is reductive.

    There'll probably be something approaching interactive holographic technology by the end of this century - let alone the 23rd. Not including it because "canon" would have been fucking silly and obtuse.
     
  10. mickmike

    mickmike Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Who cares?

    As long as they don't get trapped in some stupid robin hood program or an irish village, i'm fine with them having some type of proto-holodeck.
     
  11. cultcross

    cultcross Live long and prosper, chuck Moderator

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    The holodeck (not by that name) appeared in The Animated Series - the 1701 had one, and as Burnham points out in this week's episode, the Constitution class ships are already out and about.

    Please don't put spoilers in thread titles.
     
  12. Jarvisimo

    Jarvisimo Captain Captain

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    Yeah the 'rec room' in "The Practical Joker":

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    The producers of the show don't care. It was comvenient.
     
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  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sounds unlikely, considering how much of the stuff they do would not happen without express caring.

    This hologame apparently was purely about shooting. I wonder if there's another setting for Kirk-fu, or if the tech is incapable of providing a physical opponent. (It shouldn't be incapable, though, given the TAS evidence.)

    Also, this was a small facility, tantalizingly bordering on the need to have treadmills. The TAS facility did have treadmills, rather explicitly even. Then again, we don't know how big the TAS one was: the room seen in the topmost pic must be a simulation already, as it's too big to fit inside the TAS ship...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  15. Blamo

    Blamo Commodore Commodore

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    Well the Klingons got them in Enterprise.

    But yeah, not really happy they showed up here. Sure they won't be as advanced as the TNG ones, but the tech itself was supposedly quite new when it was introduced in Encounter at Farpoint.

    Still it could be handwaved that it was merely holographic, rather than employing transporter and forcefield technology.
     
  16. cultcross

    cultcross Live long and prosper, chuck Moderator

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    Except it had appeared years earlier in TAS. Later dialogue (particularly in Voyager referring to kids programmes the adults remember, but by implication through Quark's holosuites being already well established at the end of the occupation too) implies that holodecks were around long before Encounter at Farpoint, too. Really, it is EaF that is the out of place one here. We could come up with an explanation that perhaps isn't plain to the viewer - perhaps the experience of the reality is more convincing on the E-D and that is what is so remarkable.
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    One thing we seem to be misreading from "EaF" and all the other early TNG episodes is that our heroes constatly and consistently speak of the quality of the illusions.

    Holodecks are not new to Riker nor Picard. The ones aboard the E-D are just better than what they have seen before, and this is what they explicitly comment on. They couldn't if they hadn't seen lower-quality devices before.

    The problem for the audience is that there's no way to convey the difference between a poor-quality holodeck and an excellent-quality one through a television set.

    1) In-universe, visuals are easy, and should not differ in 20th century and 24th century holosimulations. OTOH, out-universe, creating imperfect visuals calls for hugely expensive visual effects, while perfect visuals are free.

    2) In-universe, illusion quality explicitly hinges on things other than visuals. We can't get a feel of a holodeck through television, literally. And we can't tell if a holoshow is running smoothly or has jarring edits, because our TV feed of it has edits. We only ever get one vantage point, too.

    The writers try to compensate for that by constantly having the characters tell us how this generic holosimulation is so much more realistic from last week's absolutely identical one. But predictably they fail. This should not be construed as a continuity problem. It's just a comprehension problem.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  18. The Habs Fan

    The Habs Fan Commodore Commodore

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    As already pointed out in this thread, they exist in TAS on the Enterprise so it's not a canon violation.

    These weekly threads from angry Trekkies are becoming tiresome.
     
  19. Cox of Seagulls

    Cox of Seagulls Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I hope they introduce the Borg, make explicit mention of the Ferengi, have an Andorian crew member who is orange and make first contact with the Dominion purely out of spite for nitpickers.
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hey, it takes much more than that - we got a green Andorian in TNG and a white one in ENT, there were Ferengi on Earth long before any of the Trek shows, the Borg are "hundreds of millennia old", and the Dominion knew all about the Federation before we knew of them. :vulcan:

    Timo Saloniemi