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Very carefully.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x04 - "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
We'll have to disagree on this. When Kirk mutinies in Search for Spock, it's to save his best friend who laid down his life for their ship, and Kirk makes the choice knowing it will ruin the careers of both him and his crew. It's a compelling reason, with consequences, and we, the audience, can appreciate the difficult choice they make. And cheer them on.
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You cite only one example, I cited several from later Captains who lived in a more "civilized" age.
Plus Kirk's actions were cool. Burnham looked like McCoy did in that bar, trying to nerve pinch the backwards talking guy.
Exactly. I actually though the graphic dialogue about eating Georgiou might be the smartest detail of their portrayal of the Klingons yet. It's very in keeping with what we know of Klingons, but rendered in a way that lets you just feel it's impact more.
This. So true.
I remember saying at the time I saw "Equinox" -- "THIS should have been the series!" And here we are...
That beeping box was idiotic. Probably multiple ships have been conveying that across the galaxy for awhile before it reached Burnham. It's gonna make that annoying beep every few seconds all that time? What is the possible purpose of a package that makes noise until it reaches the recipient? What is that going to do except annoy people along the way?
Geez. Where do I start? First, Stamets reminds me of Scott Thompson from Kids In The Hall.... Can't wipe that from my mind.
Second, the "taming the creature" is ridiculous. Is that the only reason the spore drive is not tenable?
Third... I have no third at the moment.
Fourth... House of KOR!! Yeah.
Second, the "taming the creature" is ridiculous. Is that the only reason the spore drive is not tenable?
Third... I have no third at the moment.
Fourth... House of KOR!! Yeah.
oh my gosh. You shouldn't have said that.
She killed a murderer of thousands in the heat of passion who had no intention of suing for peace. Also, two episodes in and she's constantly fighting for justice and the rights of an enormous space hippo. I don't think Michael is a character who is irredeemable and is right now being presented as the "soul of Starfleet" versus General Ripper/Lorka.
My wife keeps saying he needs to put his glasses on, because that's how he looks in "Rent."
The difference is, Burnham's early choices are the fundamental core of this show. The very thrust of the narrative. Too bad they ring so hollow.
They can build a super computer, to track the spore pathways, but they would also have to already have gone everywhere the spores are first to build a map, as well as measure stellar drift of the planets/space relative to spore concentration, in real time.
My interpretation of the eating of the enemy - the Klingons were consuming the essence of the slain enemy. It's happen in past cultures here on Earth. It's inconceivable that an alien culture might do the same. Constants and variables.
I think we are beginning to see why this particular drive system was abandoned. Like what happen with the Equinox over a century later, it is a crew abusing life forms to achieve an end. This is on the razor's edge.
I think we are beginning to see why this particular drive system was abandoned. Like what happen with the Equinox over a century later, it is a crew abusing life forms to achieve an end. This is on the razor's edge.
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They don't ring hollow at all. Rather, they are the actions of a flawed human being. We're so used to Star Trek where flawed human beings are almost always the bad guys. Well, now we have flawed human beings who make mistakes, pay dearly, and try to make restitution for them, while still being among the good guys. Burnham is a good soul who made a terrible mistake in the heat of battle. She's trying to make up for it. If we eliminate the humanity from Star Trek, then what the hell's the point?
Again, I don't object to what they're trying to do. I'm fine with the idea of a flawed character, even as the lead. I just think they've done it badly.
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I don't like the first two episodes very much at all, to the point where I considered giving up. Fortunately, I gave it another chance. That said, the action Burnham took was the most human action in the second episode. She reacted like that of a daughter witnessing an adoptive mother being brutally murdered by the very Klingon who was angling to start a war with the Federation. So she killed him. A not unreasonable response to the violent murder of a loved one taken in the heat of battle.
Kirk would have shot the fuck out of him.
Picard would have talked him to death.
Sisko would have probably shot him.
Janeway would have shot him twice, once in the future, and then come back to the past and do it again.
Archer would have been beaten up by the first Klingons at the scene.
STAR TREK: DISCOVERY 104 review
Apparently, the key to winning a Klingon Great House's loyalty is a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken. This episode of Star Trek Discovery has a lot of highs but they're balanced by the lows of their poor handling of the Klingons. As anyone who has read the previous episodes' review, I really enjoyed the Klingon portrayal but was hoping to get images of them being badass and displaying their new culture--yeah, this episode does not make them look smart. I think the The Next Generation's Ferengi have had a better treatment in canon and that's damning criticism.
The premise for this episode is Michael Burnham is once more a Star Fleet officer--sort of. She has no rank but is free to walk around the ship and wear the uniform. Really, they should just state she's a scientist working off years from her sentence even though that's obvious. A Klingon raid on a dilithium mine warrants the Discovery using its magical fungus warp drive to get there in time to protect them. Meanwhile, Voq and L'Rell are stuck in the middle of the Binary Star system as they were unable to get the ship working after the battle there. Starving and weakened, they get an offer from another Klingon Great House they can't refuse.
The good first. The episode shows Michael Burnham is a Starfleet officer, through and through with the showing what a Federation representative should be. She is fascinated by the discovery of the "Space Pig" which turns out to be less xenomorph and more hippo. It's extremely dangerous, yes, but a herbivore that only acts if you're stupid enough to attack it. Michael wants to interact with this new and undiscovered lifeform while reacting with horror to the idea Captain Lorka wishes to weaponize it. The fact everyone else on the Discovery couldn't care less is a deliberate stylistic choice: these are people who are NOT living up to Starfleet ideals.
One of the easiest ways you can illustrate who a character is supposed to be is creating a antithesis to reflect them against. You can tell who Steve Rogers is by both the Red Skull and U.S. Agent. The Reign of Superman had four Superman imposters so you could know what the real one was all about. Star Trek has done it a few times themselves with Captain Kirk playing off of insane Starfleet captains. Section 31 similarly exists as well as the U.S.S Enterprise. We also have the Mirrorverse for the same reason.
In this case, the U.S.S Discovery feels strongly like the starships seen in "Mirror, Mirror", "Equinox 1 and 2", and even the villainized Voyager in "Living Witness." It's not populated by scientists but by soldiers who are more interested in wiping out the Klingons than discovery or exploration. It's interesting so many fans thought Michael would be a darker and more somber character when she's meant to be the reverse. Captain Lorka isn't so much a "hard man making hard choices" as he is General Ripper since every seen emphasizes he's only interested in weaponizing whatever they find. A showdown where Michael takes him down to redeem Starfleet is inevitable at this point. I'm entirely cool with that.
However, the Klingons deserve better. Apparently, the Klingons of House T'Kuvma were not only marooned for six months to the point of starvation but they had the option of using the Shenzou's warp drive to repair their vessel but didn't take it. BECAUSE HONOR. Listen, T'Kuvma invented the cloaking device and Klingons have always been sneaky because honor doesn't require you to be an IDIOT. Seeing the Klingons literally crippled for six months doing NOTHING makes them look like awful antagonists.
It gets worse because the Klingons are also turned into cannibals. You could argue they're not cannibals because the eat a human in the late Captain Georgiou but that doesn't fly since humans and Klingons are cross-fertile so they're technically the same species (thank you, Preservers for RUINING SCIENCE!). While cannibalism could be justified as not an actual activity of Klingons but a desperation move not to starve, the corpse would be pretty ripe by then so that doesn't fly. It seems we're not just making the Klingons into Klingons but actual orcs and that's going way too far.
I also note I'm confused about the continuity with the Klingons. STAR TREK: BEYOND established beyond a doubt that not only was Enterprise canon but it's ***very*** canon. However, the augment virus should have shown some Klingons who have turned human looking even if they're supposed to mostly look like the New Klingon group. The fact they speak in subtitled Klingon is also getting really annoying since they talk about very complex things. Weirdly, the most interesting thing so far is Voq and L'Rell (I love how her name is Laurel in Klingon but you'd never notice that unless you sounded it out).
Overall, I enjoyed the episode but I have to say I couldn't really completely identify with Michael's position. Michael shows tremendous compassion to the Space Pig and tries to get people to treat it humanely but there are thousands of innocent people dying at the dilithium mining colony. I felt their pain was underemphasized in the situation. Sort of like when Captain Picard was more interested in the Crystaline Entity's health than the colonies it'd destroyed. To say I'm mad about the treatment of the Klingons in the show is understatement, though. They can be monsters or changed in appearance but they must always be competent.
6/10
Apparently, the key to winning a Klingon Great House's loyalty is a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken. This episode of Star Trek Discovery has a lot of highs but they're balanced by the lows of their poor handling of the Klingons. As anyone who has read the previous episodes' review, I really enjoyed the Klingon portrayal but was hoping to get images of them being badass and displaying their new culture--yeah, this episode does not make them look smart. I think the The Next Generation's Ferengi have had a better treatment in canon and that's damning criticism.
The premise for this episode is Michael Burnham is once more a Star Fleet officer--sort of. She has no rank but is free to walk around the ship and wear the uniform. Really, they should just state she's a scientist working off years from her sentence even though that's obvious. A Klingon raid on a dilithium mine warrants the Discovery using its magical fungus warp drive to get there in time to protect them. Meanwhile, Voq and L'Rell are stuck in the middle of the Binary Star system as they were unable to get the ship working after the battle there. Starving and weakened, they get an offer from another Klingon Great House they can't refuse.
The good first. The episode shows Michael Burnham is a Starfleet officer, through and through with the showing what a Federation representative should be. She is fascinated by the discovery of the "Space Pig" which turns out to be less xenomorph and more hippo. It's extremely dangerous, yes, but a herbivore that only acts if you're stupid enough to attack it. Michael wants to interact with this new and undiscovered lifeform while reacting with horror to the idea Captain Lorka wishes to weaponize it. The fact everyone else on the Discovery couldn't care less is a deliberate stylistic choice: these are people who are NOT living up to Starfleet ideals.
One of the easiest ways you can illustrate who a character is supposed to be is creating a antithesis to reflect them against. You can tell who Steve Rogers is by both the Red Skull and U.S. Agent. The Reign of Superman had four Superman imposters so you could know what the real one was all about. Star Trek has done it a few times themselves with Captain Kirk playing off of insane Starfleet captains. Section 31 similarly exists as well as the U.S.S Enterprise. We also have the Mirrorverse for the same reason.
In this case, the U.S.S Discovery feels strongly like the starships seen in "Mirror, Mirror", "Equinox 1 and 2", and even the villainized Voyager in "Living Witness." It's not populated by scientists but by soldiers who are more interested in wiping out the Klingons than discovery or exploration. It's interesting so many fans thought Michael would be a darker and more somber character when she's meant to be the reverse. Captain Lorka isn't so much a "hard man making hard choices" as he is General Ripper since every seen emphasizes he's only interested in weaponizing whatever they find. A showdown where Michael takes him down to redeem Starfleet is inevitable at this point. I'm entirely cool with that.
However, the Klingons deserve better. Apparently, the Klingons of House T'Kuvma were not only marooned for six months to the point of starvation but they had the option of using the Shenzou's warp drive to repair their vessel but didn't take it. BECAUSE HONOR. Listen, T'Kuvma invented the cloaking device and Klingons have always been sneaky because honor doesn't require you to be an IDIOT. Seeing the Klingons literally crippled for six months doing NOTHING makes them look like awful antagonists.
It gets worse because the Klingons are also turned into cannibals. You could argue they're not cannibals because the eat a human in the late Captain Georgiou but that doesn't fly since humans and Klingons are cross-fertile so they're technically the same species (thank you, Preservers for RUINING SCIENCE!). While cannibalism could be justified as not an actual activity of Klingons but a desperation move not to starve, the corpse would be pretty ripe by then so that doesn't fly. It seems we're not just making the Klingons into Klingons but actual orcs and that's going way too far.
I also note I'm confused about the continuity with the Klingons. STAR TREK: BEYOND established beyond a doubt that not only was Enterprise canon but it's ***very*** canon. However, the augment virus should have shown some Klingons who have turned human looking even if they're supposed to mostly look like the New Klingon group. The fact they speak in subtitled Klingon is also getting really annoying since they talk about very complex things. Weirdly, the most interesting thing so far is Voq and L'Rell (I love how her name is Laurel in Klingon but you'd never notice that unless you sounded it out).
Overall, I enjoyed the episode but I have to say I couldn't really completely identify with Michael's position. Michael shows tremendous compassion to the Space Pig and tries to get people to treat it humanely but there are thousands of innocent people dying at the dilithium mining colony. I felt their pain was underemphasized in the situation. Sort of like when Captain Picard was more interested in the Crystaline Entity's health than the colonies it'd destroyed. To say I'm mad about the treatment of the Klingons in the show is understatement, though. They can be monsters or changed in appearance but they must always be competent.
6/10
I just happened to watch the DS9 episode 'Hard Time' and I love this quote from O'Brien: "When we were growing up, they used to tell us... Humanity had evolved, that mankind had outgrown hate and rage. But when it came down to it, when I had the chance to show, that no matter what anybody did to me, that I was still an evolved Human being... I failed.'
90's Trek was generally at it's best when it was showing that the perfect members of Starfleet had human foibles. It's probably why I like DS9 so much.
I think they could just brush aside any questions from survivors about how they got there so fast.
You might convince me of this had that mother figure not given her life for a plan that specifically involved not killing him. So she dies in vain, and Burnham continues the emotionally unstable behavior that abruptly began when she mutinied against that same trusted mother figure. It's a mess, IMO.
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