Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x04 - "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I agree. Someone with some sense should have suggested they give them the Menagerie treatment.
That's the whole show for me. But I think that has to do with the format of the show. Like you say, this episode was "almost" Devil in the Dark-esque. But since [the inevitable] conclusion is pushed off until later, so is the conceit, which completely kills any of the weight the episode might carry.
I think you either do serialized high-drama or do allegory/message stuff. While I'm sure it's possible to do both at the same time, I think it requires strogner writers.
Absolutely. I'm klinging to the hope they don't last beyond the first season. I wasn't too excited about seeing them them again in the first place, but their whole presentation is one big epic fail. (And I actually liked the design work quite a bit before.)
Which is all fine and good.
The problem is the approach the producers are taking to canon (by saying one thing but doing another) is so completely disingenuous. Thing is I don't really care one way or the other. But they made such a big fucking deal about it for months that I can't help but see it as being a bit unprofessional.
I won't defend the first three seasons, but Season 4 was actually pretty good - particularly the Vulcan mini-arc.
IIRC the showrunners have said that Enterprise did a lot of things which painted them into a corner, implying that they will try and respect what the series added to canon rather than ignore it entirely.
I posit a third: They are delicious.
Empress Sato made it all worth it.
I just started watching this episode and they are speaking more like BSG than Star Trek. They are Jumping now instead of going to warp?
Then again why the hell is a ship named Enterprise about the only vessel available whenever something enormous and threatening to the very existence of life on Earth shows up to attack this planet? Starfleet has some of the most lax defensive perimeter planning I've ever seen.
Fanwank or not, ENT had a damned entertaining 4th season.
In fairness, the point was clearly made that food was all but exhausted and it was a matter of pure survival. They don't do that as a matter of common course.
A
Amaris
Guest
Interesting episode, that's for sure! *fires up episode critique spore drive*
FAVORABLE OBSERVATIONS:
* Battle drills! Yes! A ship in the middle of a war should be having drills. Speaking of, I really like the look of this bridge in action. There's chaos, but it's compartmentalized chaos, as far as I'm concerned. It works. Reds, and blues, but nothing so overtly flashy you can't see what's taking place. The viewscreen/HUD works really well in action, too.
* Landry's out. Honestly, it was a stupid move on her part to even engage the creature this way. Come on, Landry, you even said it was resistant to phasers, battleths, and you know that it tears through hulls like tissue paper, and what do you do? Take it on with a phaser rifle and a dagger. You were dead the moment you disengaged the force field. That said, sorry Rekha, I was hoping to see you in more episodes. I didn't really like your character, but that was part of the fun. Of course, if Landry would have listened to Michael, she still would have been alive. In her desire to please Lorca, she sealed her own fate by acting too rashly.
* Michael's more peaceful attempt at approaching the creature, and her compassion for its well-being. As previously thought, it's a larger variation of the Tardigrade, and she makes the connection between the spores and the creature "affectionately" named Ripper. Also, yay to Tilly ♥ for helping Michael, and realizing Michael is only trying to save lives. I love Tilly. I'm warning you, DSC, don't kill Tilly.
* Voq and L'rell are the two most notable Klingons for me. They seem to be developing some personality to where I see them as actual individuals instead of tropes being played out under heavy makeup. When they talk softly, during the dilithium processor scene, it's much easier for me to understand them, and I can see that they have to emote with their eyes and body actions, rather than their facial features which display little. Well done to the two actors here, for getting me to notice.
* The spore drive sequence. Reality essentially flipped inward on itself and spun around. The misfire and ending up right a star's rear end was pretty cool, or hot, depending upon which side of the screen you were on. I like that the spore drive didn't work perfectly the first time.
* Lorca is definitely a war captain, and I like it. He's decisive, no nonsense, and doesn't suffer fools gladly. I like how he delivered his ultimatum to Stamets right after the first failed attempt at long distance spore travel. 5 hours and everyone on Corvan is dead. It's no time to be making silly remarks to the Captain about why they can't make it on time. That said, Stamets isn't wrong when he needs more time. This new technology is clearly at the very edge of their grasp. Wrong move, and everyone gets turned into a pretzel. Add to that, he adds the arm twisting that is the screams and cries of innocents, and pipes it through the ship speakers so everyone gets to realize what is at stake. I loved that move. Lorca is definitely someone not to be trifled with.
* The arrival at Corvan was perfectly executed, in my opinion. Lorca seemed less like a warrior, here, and more like a Maestro, waiting to beat the drums and send the Klingons a signal they will never forget. Then *poof*, they're away from the battle, in the deep black serenity of space, mission completed successfully. Even I cheered on that one.
* Tilly. ♥
* Aw, she left her the telescope. I guess they went back and took as much as they could? If so, wasn't T'Kuvma's derelict vessel still there? Awkward.
MIXED FEELINGS, REALLY:
* "By now, you're Captain of your own ship..." "... you are like a daughter to me." Well, that didn't twist the knife any further for Michael. Seriously, though, I couldn't see the smiling face of Georgiou without remembering she was the main course for the Klingons not six months prior. I now know that Phillipa Georgiou seemingly goes well with a blood wine, and that her meat was apparently tender and delicious. I could have gone on without knowing this. Granted, it adds another level to the Klingons, but damn.
* Kol's treachery was telegraphed a mile away. Still, seems like a classic Klingon thing to do, so I'm more mixed on this one. Not good, not bad.
HATED THIS:
* Nothing yet this episode.
I gave this episode a solid 8 out of 10. We got more plot development, more interactions with the main characters, some Klingon subtlety *cough* as it were, and the Shroom drive finally went live. Can't wait for next week!
*Vengeful tardigrade breaks out of force field*
*screaming heard*
FAVORABLE OBSERVATIONS:
* Battle drills! Yes! A ship in the middle of a war should be having drills. Speaking of, I really like the look of this bridge in action. There's chaos, but it's compartmentalized chaos, as far as I'm concerned. It works. Reds, and blues, but nothing so overtly flashy you can't see what's taking place. The viewscreen/HUD works really well in action, too.
* Landry's out. Honestly, it was a stupid move on her part to even engage the creature this way. Come on, Landry, you even said it was resistant to phasers, battleths, and you know that it tears through hulls like tissue paper, and what do you do? Take it on with a phaser rifle and a dagger. You were dead the moment you disengaged the force field. That said, sorry Rekha, I was hoping to see you in more episodes. I didn't really like your character, but that was part of the fun. Of course, if Landry would have listened to Michael, she still would have been alive. In her desire to please Lorca, she sealed her own fate by acting too rashly.
* Michael's more peaceful attempt at approaching the creature, and her compassion for its well-being. As previously thought, it's a larger variation of the Tardigrade, and she makes the connection between the spores and the creature "affectionately" named Ripper. Also, yay to Tilly ♥ for helping Michael, and realizing Michael is only trying to save lives. I love Tilly. I'm warning you, DSC, don't kill Tilly.
* Voq and L'rell are the two most notable Klingons for me. They seem to be developing some personality to where I see them as actual individuals instead of tropes being played out under heavy makeup. When they talk softly, during the dilithium processor scene, it's much easier for me to understand them, and I can see that they have to emote with their eyes and body actions, rather than their facial features which display little. Well done to the two actors here, for getting me to notice.
* The spore drive sequence. Reality essentially flipped inward on itself and spun around. The misfire and ending up right a star's rear end was pretty cool, or hot, depending upon which side of the screen you were on. I like that the spore drive didn't work perfectly the first time.
* Lorca is definitely a war captain, and I like it. He's decisive, no nonsense, and doesn't suffer fools gladly. I like how he delivered his ultimatum to Stamets right after the first failed attempt at long distance spore travel. 5 hours and everyone on Corvan is dead. It's no time to be making silly remarks to the Captain about why they can't make it on time. That said, Stamets isn't wrong when he needs more time. This new technology is clearly at the very edge of their grasp. Wrong move, and everyone gets turned into a pretzel. Add to that, he adds the arm twisting that is the screams and cries of innocents, and pipes it through the ship speakers so everyone gets to realize what is at stake. I loved that move. Lorca is definitely someone not to be trifled with.
* The arrival at Corvan was perfectly executed, in my opinion. Lorca seemed less like a warrior, here, and more like a Maestro, waiting to beat the drums and send the Klingons a signal they will never forget. Then *poof*, they're away from the battle, in the deep black serenity of space, mission completed successfully. Even I cheered on that one.
* Tilly. ♥
* Aw, she left her the telescope. I guess they went back and took as much as they could? If so, wasn't T'Kuvma's derelict vessel still there? Awkward.
MIXED FEELINGS, REALLY:
* "By now, you're Captain of your own ship..." "... you are like a daughter to me." Well, that didn't twist the knife any further for Michael. Seriously, though, I couldn't see the smiling face of Georgiou without remembering she was the main course for the Klingons not six months prior. I now know that Phillipa Georgiou seemingly goes well with a blood wine, and that her meat was apparently tender and delicious. I could have gone on without knowing this. Granted, it adds another level to the Klingons, but damn.
* Kol's treachery was telegraphed a mile away. Still, seems like a classic Klingon thing to do, so I'm more mixed on this one. Not good, not bad.
HATED THIS:
* Nothing yet this episode.
I gave this episode a solid 8 out of 10. We got more plot development, more interactions with the main characters, some Klingon subtlety *cough* as it were, and the Shroom drive finally went live. Can't wait for next week!
*Vengeful tardigrade breaks out of force field*
*screaming heard*
Then again why the hell is a ship named Enterprise about the only vessel available whenever something enormous and threatening to the very existence of life on Earth shows up to attack this planet? Starfleet has some of the most lax defensive perimeter planning I've ever seen.
To be perfectly honest however, if we were dealing with real world physics, no warships would be needed. Just accelerate a missile to relativistic speeds and you can trash an entire planet.
Then again why the hell is a ship named Enterprise about the only vessel available whenever something enormous and threatening to the very existence of life on Earth shows up to attack this planet? Starfleet has some of the most lax defensive perimeter planning I've ever seen.
My theory is that Earth and the Sol System is really quite insignificant to the rest of the Federation, and they let Earth pretend it's the capital to keep humans from whining on the Galaxy BBS.
Your choice. Your loss. CBS and Paramount believe otherwise as evidenced by the plethora of references to events in Enterprise in the most recent films. You don't have to like it but it's not some half-assed network special with bad musical sequences and campy celebrity cameos that was produced simply to cash in on a movie's popularity.
It's just as important to the Star Trek universe and its history as any of the other series and a lot of fans actually like it. Just accept that. It's not going to be decanonized.
I started watching Enterprise this week. I'm about 12 episodes in and am not at all inclined to stop.
*Oh and the song is fucking awesome.
*Oh and the song is fucking awesome.
Season 2 is worse than Season 1 unfortunately. Probably the single worst season of Trek overall aside from TOS Season 3. But if you can make it though that, it picks up a lot.
enjoyed this episode.
the part on eating Georgiou's corpse was shocking, but it didn't disgust me. It is in keeping with the Klingon culture as many have mentioned on this thread already. I think the difference is that it happened to a character that was in the show, and for me, liked. If it was more impersonal like saying "klingons drank the blood of their victims", it wouldn't have trigger an emotional response from me. I like to think this series is R rated version of Trek, whereas the older ones like TNG, Voy, were basically rated G/PG. It is not for everyone, but i like it. No sugar coating of war.
Was surprised they killed off Landry so quick. Guess that explains why she wasn't at the NYCC or the Paleyfest panel yesterday. They are still introducing more characters, so they are making room for them i guess. Who will be the next head of security?
not a big fan of the spore tech and bear slug creature, but it is in line with star trek of the past (Encounter at far point jelly fish comes to mind).
the next episode will be more rated R, as I saw a sneak peek at the Paleyfest panel last night.
the production value is amazing. $8 mill per episode will do it. Star Trek tv never looked this good. It's a movie every weekend. I hope the character development gets better over the series. They keep killing them off!
the part on eating Georgiou's corpse was shocking, but it didn't disgust me. It is in keeping with the Klingon culture as many have mentioned on this thread already. I think the difference is that it happened to a character that was in the show, and for me, liked. If it was more impersonal like saying "klingons drank the blood of their victims", it wouldn't have trigger an emotional response from me. I like to think this series is R rated version of Trek, whereas the older ones like TNG, Voy, were basically rated G/PG. It is not for everyone, but i like it. No sugar coating of war.
Was surprised they killed off Landry so quick. Guess that explains why she wasn't at the NYCC or the Paleyfest panel yesterday. They are still introducing more characters, so they are making room for them i guess. Who will be the next head of security?
not a big fan of the spore tech and bear slug creature, but it is in line with star trek of the past (Encounter at far point jelly fish comes to mind).
the next episode will be more rated R, as I saw a sneak peek at the Paleyfest panel last night.
the production value is amazing. $8 mill per episode will do it. Star Trek tv never looked this good. It's a movie every weekend. I hope the character development gets better over the series. They keep killing them off!
It's not you.
This show reminds me a little of Stargate Universe: the producers there clearly were trying to do something more ambitious than previous SG shows, something like NU BSG. Problem was, they were still just Stargate writers.
I don't give a fuck whether any of this is in line with old Klingons or with Star Trek - that's got nothing to do with quality. I just wish it was in line with "good."
MST3K is on now - Phantom Planet! Something a little smarter.
Exactly so.
I guess I'm one of the few who liked all of the series. I have the same relationship with the Stargate community too.
Have we entered Slow Motion Picture territory yet?
I enjoyed many things in this episode, pacing not being one of them. Although I liked L'Rell, I have to agree that the new Klingon diction is dragging down the series. I also think that the series is making the same mistake that many serialized shows make, confusing the slow reveal of information with development. I knew the Grateful Dead 'Shrooming Animal was going to be abused last week.
OTOH, there were some really good moments. I like seeing Geourgiou again, and Burnham had a wonderfully measured reaction. Saru was still cool, and I like the more judgemental side. He's like a effectively mean Niles Crane.
I enjoyed many things in this episode, pacing not being one of them. Although I liked L'Rell, I have to agree that the new Klingon diction is dragging down the series. I also think that the series is making the same mistake that many serialized shows make, confusing the slow reveal of information with development. I knew the Grateful Dead 'Shrooming Animal was going to be abused last week.
OTOH, there were some really good moments. I like seeing Geourgiou again, and Burnham had a wonderfully measured reaction. Saru was still cool, and I like the more judgemental side. He's like a effectively mean Niles Crane.
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