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Walking Dead Season 7 Discussion - Spoilers possible!

I think Sasha just wanted a weapon for Negan. When convincing Eugene to procure her a suicide method there's a tell on the very last line showing her on the cell that seems she has ulterior motives. Also, her disappointment when such device is delivered as a pill.
 
Yep, she was hoping to take Negan out with her. Plus side, she'll take the pill, turn what Negan thinks is a hostage negotiation into an act of war, and start the whole thing that way, so she'll still (try to) get what she wants that way...
 
"Something They Need"--
Sasha's entire arc has never been too developed, but her "you live, I die because Maggie does not need me" (to Rosita) is so nonsensical and rushed, all thanks to Star Trek. Her begging Eugene for a way to commit suicide also seems like a move just to have the comic Holly death be season seven's last big tragedy, but it all falls flat when one does not feel too much of a loss for a character that was there to be a sounding board for others, whether it was Tyreese, Maggie or Abraham. Still, if the Holly death is adapted in full, I say again, that I would not be shocked if Rosita is the victim of the bite, or perhaps a complete innocent like Enid for ultimate shock value.

I'm not sure they'll adapt the Holly twist from the comics, seeing as how they already did that on Fear the Walking Dead with the pirate hostage exchange. Again, maybe they might... because that was on Fear the Walking Dead, which nobody seems to watch :)

The whole last exchange between Eugene and Sasha had me raging. Clearly, Eugene thought he was doing her a favor, giving her the suicide pill. But, apparently Sasha was wanting a gun or knife to kill Negan with. So, what was wrong with the PERFECTLY GOOD GODDAMN KNIFE NEGAN GAVE HER THAT WAS STICKING OUT OF DOUG'S HEAD?!?!?!?!? Rosita and Sasha had pretty much concluded going after Negan would be suicide, so why not gut him before taking the knife back?
 
I guess the problem with that is it "takes a lot of time" for her to grab the knife, orient it, and then lunge at Negan. Enough time for him to maybe react and stop her, meaning her likely death without accomplishing her main goal(s).
 
There had better be a good payoff coming after the downs and downs of this season, but next week has cliffhanger written all over it, of course.

Gregory may be the rat, why else the last minute road trip? Negan now knows that Rick is plotting against him, and it couldn't have been Eugene that told him since he was taken away from Alexandria before Rick started planning the revolution.

Dwight has been the missing piece, a turncoat insider with priceless intel on Negan's entire operation, but I'm not sure if it will play out that way if the war starts sooner than anticipated.
 
A popular theory is that Jadis (read: Judas) is the informant, but it being Gregory seems to fit better not to mention aligns with the comics more. The show has always been fast and loose with concurrent events and times so just because we saw Negan mention the informant to Sasha before we saw Gregory ask to be taken to Simon/The Sancturay doesn't mean chronologically it happened in that order. Gregory is the informant and I suspect him and Sasha to die next week.

I suspect next week will be a cliffhanger as is, fairly, common with most TV series these days but I'd guess it'll be a "soft" cliffhanger both because they likely learned their lesson after Negan-gate last year and there's probably not as big of a dramatic cliff to hang off of here. I suspect the cliffhanger will be more along the lines of what we've gotten in the past like when The Group was in the railcar at Terminus or even Morgan arriving at Alexandria.
 
I'll admit, the short preview they showed on Talking Dead blew me away.

I mean there's Carol with a machine gun, and there's a tiger right next to her. Carol ready to fight. And a tiger. Together! How in the world do the bad guys stand a chance?

As for Rick taking ALL of the guns, it does make sense. You don't go after Negan with half measures. But yeah, it would have been polite to let them keep just one. But you never know, one bullet might make a difference.

Negan's informant is an interesting question. I doubt it's Gregory, that just seems too obvious. Gregory's going to show up at the Sanctuary and either get flat out rejected, or get caught in the crossfire. I can't fathom it being Ezekiel or Jerry, and we don't know anyone else of note at the Kingdom or the Hilltop. So that leaves an Alexandrian or Jadis. I'm having a tough time thinking of any Alexandrians that would make logical sense in this role, so by process of default, it's Jadis, or someone from her group. It would be cool if it was Jadis' lieutenant (that one lady that people speculated might be related to the lady from the Kingdom), and Rick showed up at the garbage heap next week to find everyone else there dead. (Well, it would be a cool scene at least, though not actually cool.)

But yeah, besides Gregory or Jadis, who else could it really be?

Holy crap, I just remembered, we got some tiny little hints two seasons ago that maybe we shouldn't fully trust Enid. Surely she's not informing for Negan, right?

Hmm, she was always sneaking off on her own. And remind me again, when the Saviors were driving to Alexandria at the end of last season, they already knew about the place, right? Hmmm....
 
After Abraham's murder, Rick was still defiant--Negan beat that drum over and over again (ultimately leading to his pressuring Rick to cut off Carl's arm, or threaten another beating). It was all on Rick--as long as Negan saw defiance in his eyes, the horror would continue, so even if Daryl sat still, the surrounding circumstances probably would have moved Negan to kill again.

Part of Daryl being the Violent Impulsive Dumbass--it plays into this "rebel with a suffering heart of gold" that made the fangilrs swoon for six seasons, so Gimple, et al., will not do much to change that--unless Carol dies.

Oh yes I think Negan would have done something else, but Daryl's actions clearly gave him the excuse (not that he really needed one) and it's possible things would have gone down a different way, maybe he would have jumped straight to telling Rick to hack Carl's arm off, only this time actually gone all the way, who knows, but Glen's death directly followed Daryl's attack, so I think it's fair to suggest he accepts some of the blame.

This week's was good, but also a touch predictable. Rick taking all the Oeansiders' guns did seem a trifle mean, seriously leaving them a couple of pistols and a rifle would have made that much difference? Surely the way to at least pay lip service to being better than Negan is to leave them some means of defending themselves beyond bladed weapons.

I liked Maggie turning her back on Gregory. Maybe I'm reading too much into the character but it struck me as Maggie testing him. "This is going to come down to you and me eventually so here you go, here's your shot." And he didn't take it, although it does seem obvious he's on his way to tell Simon now. I hope that's misdirection, be nice if he gets some redemption.

Michonne hesitating seemed more down to not having a clear shot to me.

I liked all the Sasha/Negan/Eugene stuff. It's moments like this where Negan becomes more than a caricature and where you can see why rational people would sign up for his army, and in many ways Eugene is possibly the most realistic character in the show.

If they'd opened the door and Sasha had had the knife she wouldn't have had time to use it. Much like Maggie (maybe) Negan was giving Sasha her shot. It was clear from Sasha's face at the end of her initial conversation with Eugene that she was playing him. Her disappointment at getting a pill rather than a gun/knife just cemented that fact. It's a shame Sasha and Rosita didn't get more time as a team, because the contrast between short fuse/short term Rosita and clinical/calculating/ long game Sasha could have made for some interesting stuff.

I feel awful but Negan's whole Rapey Dave thing did make me giggle far too much.

People I expect might die next week: Aaron's boyfriend (does he have a name?) Enid, Gregory, Dwight, Sasha, Rosita...but maybe none of the above. In fact it won't surprise me if the whole thing isn't a build up to the battle...which will take place at the start of season 8!
 
I guess the problem with that is it "takes a lot of time" for her to grab the knife, orient it, and then lunge at Negan. Enough time for him to maybe react and stop her, meaning her likely death without accomplishing her main goal(s).

Agreed--she's not that fast, and Negan was clear about not trusting her.

A popular theory is that Jadis (read: Judas) is the informant, but it being Gregory seems to fit better not to mention aligns with the comics more. The show has always been fast and loose with concurrent events and times so just because we saw Negan mention the informant to Sasha before we saw Gregory ask to be taken to Simon/The Sancturay doesn't mean chronologically it happened in that order. Gregory is the informant and I suspect him and Sasha to die next week.

Gregory is pushed forward as the coward/cutthroat to watch, but Jadis and her people are major question marks. Her every interaction with Rick bleeds ulterior motive of some sort--whether its about a personal interest in Rick (note the way she studies him) or the entire ASZ group. I cannot imagine the junkyard group not being a threat by 8A.


Holy crap, I just remembered, we got some tiny little hints two seasons ago that maybe we shouldn't fully trust Enid. Surely she's not informing for Negan, right?

That was a thing back in S6, but now, with her relationship to Carl and Maggie, it would make no sense for Enid to be an informant, since Carl & Maggie would be most likely to die (out of revenge / level of threat).
 
Regarding Sasha/Negan: she couldn't have done it when he was standing there daring her to do so. But then he kneeled down with the bat on the ground for a minute and was talking to her. That was her chance. She could have blocked the bat with her left hand and made a play for grabbing the knife and stabbing him with her right. Watching it, that was her moment. She wouldn't have been able to kill him, most likely, but a good stab in the gut was definitely on the table and would do the job in this world. She'd definitely be beaten to death as part of this, but since her plan was to sacrifice herself anyway, that was the last chance to do it (I assume).
 
Maggie wasn't worried about turning her back on Gregory. She knows he's too much of a coward to actually kill someone. proven moments later when he couldn't dispatch an already dead walker.
 
Maggie wasn't worried about turning her back on Gregory. She knows he's too much of a coward to actually kill someone. proven moments later when he couldn't dispatch an already dead walker.

But there's always a moment--a turning point where a coward decides to take that next step. We saw this with Eugene when he decided to join the big walker fight in "No Way Out" after a long history of being a total wuss.

If Gregory is desperate to restore a comfortable situation that means he will never be forced to be on his own/defend himself, he might build up enough courage to kill Maggie (or get someone else to do it). Perhaps his little getaway is the beginning of his courage growing.
 
Assorted thoughts and musings:
Here? I can't quite defend this. I "get" them needing to get the guns and having limited choices in the matter and to Rick's credit they tried to do it peacefully without killing anyone and only using their guns (and wasted explosives) for suppression and not harm, and a good scene with The Group/Alexandrians and The Oceansiders group fighting the mini-herd of walkers together; I had hoped this would've gotten The Oceansiders to fight with Rick and everyone else regardless of what what's-her-name says. But The Oceaniders decided not to fight, so I thought it was kind of shitty for Rick to take their entire armory. While I'm sure they could have other guns stashed away somewhere and they're, relatively, "safe" from outside intrusion given their isolation it'd seem "fair" to me for Rick to have only taken half or 2/3s of them or something. I wouldn't go as far as to say, "Rick is no better than Negan" here, as he didn't use violence or death to do this, and I take him at his word he'll return the guns when the battle is over (don't see how since he's got to give these, or some of these, to The Scavengers but maybe he's counting on acquiring a bunch from the fight with The Sanctuary.

I felt exactly this way. It's one of the things that still makes this a great show in some ways because the protagonists don't always take the high road. It will be very interesting to see what happens if the entire community is slaughtered next season because of Rick's actions.
 
Yeah, it is the ambiguous actions that makes this show good in trying to wrestle with the "moral choices" characters have to make in this world. People are quick to criticize The Group for attacking The Saviors' outpost in the satellite station given that, up to that point The Saviors hadn't posed much of a threat, but given what they'd been told and had experienced in encounters with them it's understandable why they had to make this tough moral choice of attacking the compound and killing a bunch of "innocent" people.

Plenty of other times the characters had made morally gray decisions, hell I still don't think Carl was "wrong" for shooting the Wodobury kid at the end of Season 3. Carl asked the kid to drop the gun and surrender and, instead, the kid tries to hand over the gun which would only mean Carl has to drop his guard to retrieve it and he had Herschel and Beth to protect. I totally get why, in this morally gray world, Carl would shoot the kid. It's not "right" but in this world it isn't strictly "wrong" either.

But.... Man. It's hard to too much justify or side with Rick and The Group on taking all of Oceanside's guns and how they went about doing it.
 
I felt exactly this way. It's one of the things that still makes this a great show in some ways because the protagonists don't always take the high road. It will be very interesting to see what happens if the entire community is slaughtered next season because of Rick's actions.

I agree with the above — but the Oceansiders didn't take any higher of a road when they lied to Tara and then tried to kill her.

Not that they deserve to be killed because of that, but they didn't exactly invite friendly treatment, or trust. Rick may have felt that leaving any number of their guns might invite them to attack HIM.

Which, come to think of it, is basically the same decision Carl had to make.
 
Yeah, the Oceansiders are hardly "good" themselves, they did say that usually they take any outsiders they come across and kill them on the spot and had made a exception for Tara since she seemed useful to them, then went for the covert way of offing her. Still, taking all of their guns is damn shitty.
 
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