You don't like THAT?!

[Nerys Ghemor]

I had thought Jadzia had actually said she had a number of partners (or Ezri said she did?).

The only time Ezri said that was when Worf kept pestering her with questions about Captain Boday and whether Jadzia slept with him, and continued to question her who else had she slept with, until Ezri had had enough of it and started shouting at him: "Yes, she slept with hundreds, she slept with the entire station", which was obviously deliberately absurd. I thought it clearly meant: "Is that what you wanted to hear? All right then! I don't need to justify myself, or Jadzia, to you! "

Oh, I didn't think it was anywhere near hundreds, but I figured it had to be a lot.

And what the hell is narrow-minded about believing in marriage, that you should be faithful? I can tell you, personally, that I would NOT want to be with any man who had had previous partners.

What the hell does being faithful have to do with having had previous partners?!

There was never any indication that Jadzia was not faithful to Worf, or that she even intended or wanted to be unfaithful.

Maybe she should have started asking him about Troi?

And of course if the two of them had done anything (Worf and Troi), it would prove he was not holding true to his own ideals, which would be a whole other can of worms.

But, for a traditional marriage of the sort that Worf seems to be espousing, having previous partners WOULD matter, if those partner were outside of a legitimate marriage. I mean, it's one thing if you married previously and your spouse died, or you divorced...another if you were just sleeping around without the commitment of marriage. That's why I didn't think Jadzia was an appropriate match.

(But again, see above. If Worf was not holding true to his ideals, then yes, Jadzia would've had a comeback in that there was hypocrisy involved. But if he did hold true--then she wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.)

 

[PhasersOnStun]

Another vote for Shatner; I've never understood the Shatner hate. I think he's a good actor, who really created a wonderful character, and acted it well. When you really delve into it, despite how easy it is to caricature some of his larger than life portrals, he can also be extremely subtle and moving.

No more Shat hate!

 

[DevilEyes]

I had thought Jadzia had actually said she had a number of partners (or Ezri said she did?).

The only time Ezri said that was when Worf kept pestering her with questions about Captain Boday and whether Jadzia slept with him, and continued to question her who else had she slept with, until Ezri had had enough of it and started shouting at him: "Yes, she slept with hundreds, she slept with the entire station", which was obviously deliberately absurd. I thought it clearly meant: "Is that what you wanted to hear? All right then! I don't need to justify myself, or Jadzia, to you! "

Oh, I didn't think it was anywhere near hundreds, but I figured it had to be a lot.

And what the hell is narrow-minded about believing in marriage, that you should be faithful? I can tell you, personally, that I would NOT want to be with any man who had had previous partners.

What the hell does being faithful have to do with having had previous partners?!

There was never any indication that Jadzia was not faithful to Worf, or that she even intended or wanted to be unfaithful.

Maybe she should have started asking him about Troi?

And of course if the two of them had done anything (Worf and Troi), it would prove he was not holding true to his own ideals, which would be a whole other can of worms.

But, for a traditional marriage of the sort that Worf seems to be espousing, having previous partners WOULD matter, if those partner were outside of a legitimate marriage. I mean, it's one thing if you married previously and your spouse died, or you divorced...another if you were just sleeping around without the commitment of marriage. That's why I didn't think Jadzia was an appropriate match.

(But again, see above. If Worf was not holding true to his ideals, then yes, Jadzia would've had a comeback in that there was hypocrisy involved. But if he did hold true--then she wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.)

I think Jadzia couldn't care less who Worf slept with before he had met her and would think that being concerned with that was completely ridiculous.

The fact that Worf did not feel that way, makes me realize that he was not good enough for her. Quark and Bashir were right about that. So, you are making a good case of them being less than a great couple. But as a TV couple they were good, as the differences made the marriage interesting.

 

[PSGarak]

I don't understand why people complain about Terry Farrell's acting. I think she did perfectly fine, and she was actually way stronger than Siddig El Fadil in the first season. He did at least improve over time.

I don't understand complaints about Jake Sisko, as he was one of the least annoying recurring kid characters ever on any Trek series IMO.

Whenever people say they hate Cardassians as characters, it just makes me scratch my head. Sure, I can understand disliking individual Cardassian characters, but to say they were badly written? Blows my mind.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I believe he did express his displeasure on more than one occasion: once, I believe, before the marriage, and once to Ezri.

You may be right. My recollection of the episodes is quite fuzzy at this time.

And what the hell is narrow-minded about believing in marriage, that you should be faithful? I can tell you, personally, that I would NOT want to be with any man who had had previous partners. A little self-control is certainly not too much to expect.

Self-control has nothing to do with it. Not all people who have sex outside of marriage are sex-crazed teenager, you know. Some people don't feel they need a paper or a ring to be part of a family, some people don't see anything wrong with expressing their feeling before and outside marriage, and some people just have a good time. To everybody each own.

Obviously other people can do what they want, but I should not have to compromise my values because others might disapprove.

No one is asking you to do anything. You are the one who started being judgmental (Jadzia not being "good enough" for Worf). So don't play the victim once your "values" are questioned.

And same thing for Worf--just because you disapprove does not mean he should have to compromise HIS values. They're perfectly legitimate.

Of course they are legitimate. They make him kind of a dick, too.

And what the hell is narrow-minded about believing in marriage, that you should be faithful? I can tell you, personally, that I would NOT want to be with any man who had had previous partners.

What the hell does being faithful have to do with having had previous partners?!

There was never any indication that Jadzia was not faithful to Worf, or that she even intended or wanted to be unfaithful.

Because people who have sex outside of marriage are sex-crazed sluts, of course. So they must be wiling to lie, cheat, steal, and god knows what else... Yeah.

 

[SilentP]

Far better than First Contact, which to me, was a valentines presents for the so called 'target' audience; horny 14 year old boys...Rob

You see, I never get this idea people bandy about that First Contact is meant to appeal to a horny demographic. The Borg Queen?* *insert vomiting smiley*



*By the way, that's not meant to be a reflection on the actress' attractiveness, it's more a comment of what her character was.

 

[Australis]

Voyager.

Big Voyager fan. Always was, always will be. I prefer it to t'other Treks, not by a huge margin I add. It wasn't flawless, but none of them are. The actors weren't flawless, but none of them are. For me, for some reason, Voyager just works better.

So there.

 

[Disillusioned]

I've never quite understood the hate for Jonathan Archer. Yeah, he was a little on the crabby side, but I always liked him. Of course, that could be my love for Scott Bakula showing through, but still...I never thought he was a bad character.

Because he's unprofessional, inept at what he does, treats his crew like crap bu they somehow still respect him, and most of the time he acts like an immature teenager. But that's just why I hate him.

I never understood why there was so much criticism about mini-skirts or catsuits. Especially the mini-skirts: I always thought they looked kind of comfortable (although obviously not too practical for some away missions).

Because such costumes come off as sexist, since the male crewmembers get to wear something more normal, and because they are completely unprofessional as a uniform.

Many folks seem to have distain for the Ferengi, but they're one of my favorite races in Trek.

Because they were played over the top for laughs.

 

[Kira Nerys]

ds9 and voyager usually in my circles don't get great reviews .

 

[Shazam!]

Because such costumes come off as sexist, since the male crewmembers get to wear something more normal, and because they are completely unprofessional as a uniform.

My reaction to that has always been... so?

 

[RyuRoots]

Because such costumes come off as sexist, since the male crewmembers get to wear something more normal, and because they are completely unprofessional as a uniform.

My reaction to that has always been... so?

I said this before in another thread, but I could NEVER take a woman wearing that ridiculous thing seriously as a member of a paramilitary organization representing over a hundred worlds.

"Yeah, that's cute sweetie. When's Starfleet gonna get here?"

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I don't understand people who find Bajorans and episodes about their politics boring.

That's mine too. I found all that interesting; the Dominion War plotline that booted it was more interesting, so I'm fine with the change.

But in general, anything that garners a signficant amount of criticism is on my shit list too.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I said this before in another thread, but I could NEVER take a woman wearing that ridiculous thing seriously as a member of a paramilitary organization representing over a hundred worlds.

"Yeah, that's cute sweetie. When's Starfleet gonna get here?"

When she proceeds to beat the living bejeezus out of you (since, miniskirt of not, she's a trained officer of a military), I suppose you would be more respectful.

Maybe she can also quote the female recruitment officer in the new movie: "Sit down, or I'll make you sit down".

 

[M'Sharak]

Maybe she can also quote the female recruitment officer in the new movie: "Sit down, or I'll make you sit down".

Flight Officer Siddowne FTW!


Has anyone mentioned "A Night in Sickbay" yet? Aside from a couple of painfully dumb lines which should never have made it past the first script revision, it's really a pretty damn good comedy episode. (It's just not the sort of comedy episode that people were used to expecting from Trek.)

 

[RyuRoots]

I said this before in another thread, but I could NEVER take a woman wearing that ridiculous thing seriously as a member of a paramilitary organization representing over a hundred worlds.

"Yeah, that's cute sweetie. When's Starfleet gonna get here?"

When she proceeds to beat the living bejeezus out of you (since, miniskirt of not, she's a trained officer of a military), I suppose you would be more respectful.

Maybe she can also quote the female recruitment officer in the new movie: "Sit down, or I'll make you sit down".

My point





Your head

I never said women aren't capable officers. But if you want me to take them seriously, dress them in something that doesn't look like an in-universe hazing ritual (thankfully, everything after the TV show did so. Well, except maybe TMP. But the guys were just as bad off, at least).

 

[Disillusioned]

The worst offender I've seen so far are the "uniforms" from the new movie, which don't even give female crew members rank. I suppose rank doesn't matter when you're just there to be eye candy.

 

[bluedana]

Has anyone mentioned "A Night in Sickbay" yet? Aside from a couple of painfully dumb lines which should never have made it past the first script revision, it's really a pretty damn good comedy episode. (It's just not the sort of comedy episode that people were used to expecting from Trek.)

I agree. It's a funny episode, and I've understood the Worst! Episode! Ever! reaction, or the "sexual harassment" criticism (still baffled by that one). It's way funnier, in my opinion, than A Piece of the Action, or some of the classic (forced) comedy episodes I've seen. I like to think of it as Jonathan's Terrible, Horrible No-Good Day.

I don't get the outrage over catsuits, either. So they're tight - who cares? There's no flesh showing (unlike the miniskirts which, I remember those things, and unless those stockings were thermal - brrrr). Are people still that distracted by the fact that women have breasts? How very Victorian.

 

[Disillusioned]

Being Victorian has nothing to do with being professional and retaining equality between the sexes. And I, for one, have no wish to see male characters running around in catsuits.

 

[DevilEyes]

Being Victorian has nothing to do with being professional and retaining equality between the sexes. And I, for one, have no wish to see male characters running around in catsuits.

Putting male characters in the same outfits as females would not be doing the equivalent of what the show does with female characters to sex them up. I don't think many people thought TNG men in miniskirts were sexy.

Ron Moore made a good point in one of this Q&As with DS9 fans in 1990s, when faced of accusations of sexism because of female characters' sexy outfits and costumes that make their breast look bigger... (and that was before Seven appeared on Voyager - so I have no idea what they were referring to. Kira and Dax never seemed too sexed up as far as I could see. Sure, Kira's uniform was tight and body-fitting, but no more than the Cardassian uniforms!) He said that they never shied away from showing off fit, sexy bodies of any actors, male or female (pointing out all the times that TNG had Patrick Stewart take his clothes off), that it could be argued that dressing men in uniforms and outfits that make them look stronger and more physically powerful is actually enhancing their secondary sexual characteristics, and that Trek costume people pad everyone, because they'd get no body definition otherwise due to the crude material the outfits are made of. His exact words were, I believe: "Do you think Worf's shoulders are really that big? Do you think Dukat's chest is really the size of an oil tank?"

 

[alicelouise]

This is NOT an exhaustive list:

Rick and Braga.

Wesley Crusher. (Now I'm gonna get it....)

Enterprise.

The TNG films--INCLUDING Nemesis.

STV.

The Bajorans. (Granted, some folks were a little annoying, but by-and-large, the Bajoran people were VERY well realized.)

Ezri...especially Ezri. (Honestly--I am ASTONISHED that there are actually folks who HATE her. I mean c'mon...how can you not fall in love with her after seeing Nicole DeBoer's SUPERB performances in "Afterimage", "Protigal Daughter", "Field of Fire", etc.?)

I never got the Wesley Crusher hatred. He was used as a deux ex machina too often but that's not a reason for the brick bats. he may have been better realized if he was more like the 17 year old Chekhov in the latest ST movie, brilliant but, not always right.

As for the Bajorans..what the hey? Like the Vulcans, Cardassians, and the Klingons, the Bajorans were quite well realized as a race.

The Nemesis movie featured the Romulans and had great space fight scenes. The actor who played Shinzon did an excellent job. Yes, the death of a key TNG character is a downer. The movie, however, does not deserve its bad press.

Berman and Braga. They had good moments in ALL of the franchises. There were nearly 20 years of Trek series. If someone had told me in the early 70s that there would be ST seasons lasting 7 years and there would be 4 of them in the future...even if there was the caveat that not all of the episodes would be great...what's not to like?