I was surprised by the widespread dislike of Ezri Dax, of Bajoran politics and the hate for Enterprise.
You don't like THAT?!
- Thread starter Piper
- Start date
^Y'know...when I think of all the Ezri-hatred, and how it all seems to be along the lines of "She's annoying, Garak was right, never mind that Garak's mind was ALL HAYWIRE, he was right" blah-blah-blah...
I remember something Ezri said in "Strange Bedfellows":
"Are you angry with me for something that I did...or because I'm not Jadzia?"
I remember something Ezri said in "Strange Bedfellows":
"Are you angry with me for something that I did...or because I'm not Jadzia?"
Disillusioned
Commander
And yet they tried it.Putting male characters in the same outfits as females would not be doing the equivalent of what the show does with female characters to sex them up. I don't think many people thought TNG men in miniskirts were sexy.
Both Dax's and Kira's uniforms got progressively tighter as the series went on. Kira ended up in a full on catsuit at the beginning of the seventh season.
Apparently I've seen more people talk about the puke they tasted in their mouth thanks to his time on Risa.
Which still isn't the same as trying to squeeze an actress into a super-tight catsuit, so tight that they actually have to unzip it between shots so she can breath normally for a while. And that's just the practical side of it. On the other hand there's that willing suspension of disbelief, and I just can't take a character seriously if they're dressed in stripperific clothing that the suits are trying to pass off as a uniform. If RDM defended the practice on DS9 (which was still better about it than VOY or ENT for the most part), he did a much better job in regard to that on BSG, which had plenty of "mature" content, but had male and female personnel dressed in the same uniform.
Really?
Kira season 1:
http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01/emissary074e.jpg
http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x08/dax174.jpg
Kira season 4:
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/boot_the_grime/Star Trek/indiscretion_269.jpg
Kira season 7:
http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/7x04/takemeout_017.jpg
http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/7x04/takemeout_018.jpg
If anything, her uniform in early seasons was tighter.
Dax season 1
http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x08/dax194.jpg
Dax season 6
http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/6x16/changeofheart_072.jpg
I don't see a major difference here.
Picard's female fans puked? Really? I kinda doubt that.
I'm not even that into him, and I certainly didn't mind it.Well, Trek is Trek, and BSG is BSG. I don't remember any BSG men in uniforms that included super-tight black pants, either.
But then again, it didn't matter, since everyone got their clothes off in every second episode, either.
I like almost everything Trek puts out there, save for moments like 11:59 or Far Beyond the Stars where it really no longer feels like a Trek episode. Granted, Far Beyond the Stars was a neat concept and I did enjoy it, but it doesn't hold much rewatchability. And I rewatch heaps of the episodes.
I can't bear to watch 11:59 again... seriously. I came to see aliens and Phasers and a holographic doctor and we get Janeway's ancestor saving a bookstore? Come on!
I can't bear to watch 11:59 again... seriously. I came to see aliens and Phasers and a holographic doctor and we get Janeway's ancestor saving a bookstore? Come on!
Disillusioned
Commander
Uh, no. I don't understand how you can't see that. I noticed right off in the season 7 premier that she was wearing a catsuit, and even as a teenager I was disappointed with that. Much like T'Pol's "uniform", it wasn't much of one, seeing as she was the only one to wear it.
I do. You didn't pick a very good shot of it, but there were times it looked like her breasts were straining to rip through her uniform.
Maybe not them, but pretty much everyone else could have done without seeing that.Picard's female fans puked? Really? I kinda doubt that.
And what female character on BSG wore super-tight black pants as part of their uniform?
That was basically the point I made.But then again, it didn't matter, since everyone got their clothes off in every second episode, either.
That's a good description of what Kira's breasts were doing in the season 1 uniform.
So what are you saying, that you and your friends weren't the right demographics to enjoy Picard's semi-nudity?
None of them did. But some male characters on DS9 did (Cardassians, to be precise, who happened to be men in 99% cases - I'm not even sure if we saw a female Cardie miltiary person on DS9, though we did see 2 on TNG). I don't know how you failed to notice that. (Wrong demographics?
)Disillusioned
Commander
The really thick one that was actually like all the other Bajoran uniforms? I'd beg to differ. I liked that one best though because it was actually like what the rest of the Bajoran militia was wearing. At least I don't recall any other Bajorans wearing the jumpsuit version she ended up with.
I'm saying most people aren't interested in seeing an old guy in a banana hammock.So what are you saying, that you and your friends weren't the right demographics to enjoy Picard's semi-nudity?
Actually I was talking about the uniforms on BSG, which actually look like they could pass for uniforms.None of them did. But some male characters on DS9 did (Cardassians, to be precise, who happened to be men in 99% cases - I'm not even sure if we saw a female Cardie miltiary person on DS9, though we did see 2 on TNG). I don't know how you failed to notice that. (Wrong demographics?
As for on Star Trek, if it's bad, I usually notice. The worst thing I saw about the uniforms they made is that they failed to make them with enough slack around the shoulders and waist, so when an actor reached up to say climb up a ladder, it tended to ride up their butt crack.
And we did see a few female Cardassian officers, though the only one I can think of off hand was actually in TNG.
Well, I'm kinda short, so...When she proceeds to beat the living bejeezus out of you (since, miniskirt of not, she's a trained officer of a military), I suppose you would be more respectful.
Maybe she can also quote the female recruitment officer in the new movie: "Sit down, or I'll make you sit down".
My point
Your head
Then maybe you should stop basing your assessment to take someone seriously on what they are wearing but on what they are doing? No?
I don't think you understand the notion of different demographics. In his TNG days, he was a very fit, slightly older man with an innate elegance and a commanding presence. A lot of my female friends find Patrick Stewart quite sexy.I'm saying most people aren't interested in seeing an old guy in a banana hammock.So what are you saying, that you and your friends weren't the right demographics to enjoy Picard's semi-nudity?
Disillusioned
Commander
It's hard to take anyone seriously when they're mostly naked or otherwise wearing something stripperific. I think you've kind of missed the point of being dressed professionally while on duty and showing equality between the sexes.
He was better in "First Contact". In any case, he was out of uniform on Risa and not on duty.
I love Generations and very much like TFF. And Wes.
Have at it!
Have at it!
I am an avowed Wrath of Khan fan, and it has surprised me that people balk at Khan's motivations for pursuing Kirk. When you've been marooned on a lifeless planet with no one bothering to see how you were doing and having the woman he loved suffer such an agonizing death the reason Khan was so obsessed is evident. He didn't really need to have a logical motive when he was bat guano insane. Besides, psychotic people in real life have gone on rampages for much flimsier reasons. And if we are take the Moby Dick references into account, Captain Kirk was like Khan's white whale, that nemesis that he's been obsessing over for 15 years.
It's hard if people don't try at all, or if appearance is all they care about. My boss wears miniskirts quite often, and you can bet people take her seriously, or she'll bite their head off.
I agree that male and female uniforms should be made after the same pattern. But the answer is not long-sleeves, long-trousers suits for everyone. I have no problem with miniskirts, as long as they are optional (i.e. women that are not comfortable with them can use something else) and they allow for something similar for men (shorts, skant, whatever). Scottish soldiers in raided the fields of battle for centuries wearing kilt: I will not be the one to tell them I can't take them seriously because they look unprofessional!
I was replying about the "puking in one's mouth" comment about Picard's dishabilles. He may not be my cuppa o'tea, but I don't think he was horrible or something.
There's something a uniform should have called professionalism. If you saw a lawyer wearing shorts and a T-shirt in a courtroom, would you take him seriously at a glance? Same basic concept.
Disillusioned
Commander
Exactly.
And since Starfleet is a uniformed service, that definitely should apply to them.She could chew me out or fire me, but if she catches me staring it's her own fault.
Kind of depends on the work environment, too. Do you work in a uniformed service? (i.e. police, EMT, fire department, coast guard, NOAA Corps, or the armed forces)?They still got laughed at plenty of times, especially if they were defeated. As for shorts or skirts, bare legs aren't professional.I agree that male and female uniforms should be made after the same pattern. But the answer is not long-sleeves, long-trousers suits for everyone. I have no problem with miniskirts, as long as they are optional (i.e. women that are not comfortable with them can use something else) and they allow for something similar for men (shorts, skant, whatever). Scottish soldiers in raided the fields of battle for centuries wearing kilt: I will not be the one to tell them I can't take them seriously because they look unprofessional!
Sorry, but Picard in a banana hammock was something I could have gone without seeing.
)
This reminds me of the scene in True Believer when Robert Downey Jr's young lawyer character sees his idol (James Woods' character) in courtroom, whose picture he's never seen, and his drug dealer client, and mistakes one for the other, thanks to the famous lawyer wearing a pony tail and the big time drug dealer looking like a well-dressed middle aged gentleman.
An understandable mistake. People tend to judge by appearances.
I'd say that there are quite a few people who are perfectly fine wtih some semi-nudity from a 50-something - or "old guy" in your terminology - who was as fit as Patrick Stewart was in TNG. And I think many younger men could only wish yo be as fit.
(*sitting on the bed, and thus not taking advantage of the Spandex pants.)
This reminds me of the scene in True Believer when Robert Downey Jr's young lawyer character sees his idol (James Woods' character) in courtroom, whose picture he's never seen, and his drug dealer client, and mistakes one for the other, thanks to the famous lawyer wearing a pony tail and the big time drug dealer looking like a well-dressed middle aged gentleman.
An understandable mistake. People tend to judge by appearances.
How do you know? Did you conduct a wide poll or something?I'm saying most people aren't interested in seeing an old guy in a banana hammock.So what are you saying, that you and your friends weren't the right demographics to enjoy Picard's semi-nudity?
I'd say that there are quite a few people who are perfectly fine wtih some semi-nudity from a 50-something - or "old guy" in your terminology - who was as fit as Patrick Stewart was in TNG. And I think many younger men could only wish yo be as fit.
Has it ever occured to you that you're not the measure of all things and that other people might feel differently than you?
We saw Gul Ocett in TNG "The Chase", and we got a glimpse of a female Cardie soldier in the infirmary in "Journey's End"*. Every other Cardie military person, including every one of them on DS9, was male.And we did see a few female Cardassian officers, though the only one I can think of off hand was actually in TNG.None of them did. But some male characters on DS9 did (Cardassians, to be precise, who happened to be men in 99% cases - I'm not even sure if we saw a female Cardie miltiary person on DS9, though we did see 2 on TNG). I don't know how you failed to notice that. (Wrong demographics?
(*sitting on the bed, and thus not taking advantage of the Spandex pants.)
I actually like Generations.
Professionalism is what you make of it. Male officers are wearing what it's virtually a primary-colored pajamas. Do you think it's professional for a uniformed service? They look more like circus performers than soldiers. You have a problem with it, too, or you have it only with the female version? if so, why?Exactly.
Staring is ok. We are humans. I stare, and she is not even my type. I have no problem with co-workes checking out my ass when I use my tight-fitting trousers, too.She could chew me out or fire me, but if she catches me staring it's her own fault.
Nope, I work in academia. But there is a level of professional dress required here, too, especially at conferences and the like. And miniskirts are totally kosher.
Everything can be mocked. British soldiers wore helmets that looked silly. Prussians had fucking spikes on the top of theirs. Samurai wore clothes that looked like women's dresses. No really different.They still got laughed at plenty of times, especially if they were defeated.I agree that male and female uniforms should be made after the same pattern. But the answer is not long-sleeves, long-trousers suits for everyone. I have no problem with miniskirts, as long as they are optional (i.e. women that are not comfortable with them can use something else) and they allow for something similar for men (shorts, skant, whatever). Scottish soldiers in raided the fields of battle for centuries wearing kilt: I will not be the one to tell them I can't take them seriously because they look unprofessional!
Spartans, Romans, Scots, and a whole lotta other people disagree. My point being: professional dress, even for uniformed services, depends on time and customs. It's not set in stone: "Thou shalt not bare your legs on duty".
Sorry, but Picard in a banana hammock was something I could have gone without seeing.[/QUOTE]Ok, but other people liked it. Make what you want of this.
Professionalism is what you make of it. Male officers are wearing what it's virtually a primary-colored pajamas. Do you think it's professional for a uniformed service? They look more like circus performers than soldiers. You have a problem with it, too, or you have it only with the female version? if so, why?Exactly.
Personally, I hate the TOS TV show uniforms altogether. The male ones look like there was a bulk sale on shirts at K-mart and everyone coordinated. They all look ridiculous, but the minis are just worse on the females. Those miniskirts and loose collars combined with long sleeves don't even seem like a retro-futirisitc uniform; they look like someone couldn't decide if they wanted a jacket or a party dress and split the difference. As with many of TOS' flaws, I blame tastes of the '60s.
