You don't like THAT?!

[Navaros]

I'll never understand the general loathing for the episode Valiant. I love it because all but one of the brats gets what they deserve by the end of the episode. It's a truly great episode yet for some inexplicable reason is generally dismissed by DS9 fans as one of DS9's worst.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, when there are people living in my building who come from cultures more different from mine than "Bajor" and the politics of my city council are more complicated and interesting than the lightweight maneuvering and moustache-twirling baddies of DS9 like Kai Winn and Dukat, it's difficult not to be bored by that stuff. It was unimaginative and didn't approach the subtlety of writing on better TV dramas in the 1990s and the whole thing was short on any real imagination. So yeah, it was too boring to bother with on a weekly basis.

A few of the actors and some of the one-off stories were the show's saving graces. I would watch anything that focused on Shimmerman's character.

 

[DevilEyes]

Well, when there are people living in my building who come from cultures more different from mine than "Bajor" and the politics of my city council are more complicated and interesting than the lightweight maneuvering and moustache-twirling baddies of DS9 like Kai Winn and Dukat, it's difficult not to be bored by that stuff. It was unimaginative and didn't approach the subtlety of writing on better TV dramas in the 1990s and the whole thing was short on any real imagination. So yeah, it was too boring to bother with on a weekly basis.

A few of the actors and some of the one-off stories were the show's saving graces. I would watch anything that focused on Shimmerman's character.

Please put hidden cameras in your city council. I want to watch that!

I love the way you've just confirmed my suspicions about why some people hate Bajorans. Not exotic enough. Too similar to humans... to real humans, that is, not the boring, 'evolved' 24th century variety. No single stereotype based on a human characteristics or an element of a human culture but magnified 10 times; no cool catchphrases you can shout in a made-up language; no bumpy foreheads and extensive makeup that make a great sight when you wear it at a con; no kinky sex practices (that we know of) you could make funny scenes about; or any of that other stuff that passes as "a differrent culture" on Trek.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I never understood the criticisms for Favourite Son. It's not a bad episode, actually it's quite a good one. Of course, that's probably because I'm in the minority who actually likes Harry Kim, and well, dare I say it, he's my favourite character on Voyager. I can think of worse episodes in Season 3 alone.

Ah, Harry Kim at Castle Anthrax...

It's all too easy to imagine the scene when Harry arrives
in the transporter room, and finds Chakotay waiting for him.

CHAKOTAY: We were in the nick of time. You were in great peril.

HARRY <dragging his feet>: I don't think I was.

CHAKOTAY: You were, Ensign Kim, you were in terrible peril.

HARRY: Look, why don't you let me go back down there and face the peril?

CHAKOTAY: It's too perilous.

HARRY: Look, it's my duty as a Starfleet officer to try and sample as much peril as I can.

CHAKOTAY: No, no, we must find the way home.

HARRY: Oh, go on. Let me have a bit of peril.

CHAKOTAY: No. It's unhealthy.

HARRY: I bet you're gay...

 

[Sector 7]

Thanks, Dennis. I thought I was the only non-Niner on this board, since I am usually attacked for any critcism of same.

I actually liked Wesley Crusher's character. I also liked Rascals and the one where they got stuck in the elevator... they are the only episodes my kids would watch.

I also don't understand those who tend to belittle or bash anyone who disagrees with their opinion about a movie, series or episode. We all have our opinions. I may hate something you love, but I don't hate YOU for loving it.

 

[Smellincoffee]

Its "morality tales": my favorite Trek episodes are the ones in which the lead characters grapple with some issue or another. I don't even mind it when they get preachy, as they did in TOS and TNG.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Oh yeah, and Worf/Troi? Much better than Riker/Troi.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Well...personally (and I'm resonably sure this is the reason other fans give), I think the Worf/Troi thing was taking the "opposites attract" thing a bit too far.

Sorry, but...IMHO, they're just not compatible.

Now, Jadzia/Worf was COMPLETELY believable--those two blend together wonderfully!

Just like Ezri/Julian--I tell ya, those two were MADE for each other.

 

[DevilEyes]

Well...personally (and I'm resonably sure this is the reason other fans give), I think the Worf/Troi thing was taking the "opposites attract" thing a bit too far.

Sorry, but...IMHO, they're just not compatible.

Now, Jadzia/Worf was COMPLETELY believable--those two blend together wonderfully!

Just like Ezri/Julian--I tell ya, those two were MADE for each other.

I am not sure why so many people hate Worf/Jadzia. I thought they were really good and funny together. Worf was certainly funnier to watch when Jadzia was driving his crazy, than when he was just sulking and talking about honor to whoever was there. That may be why I never hated "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." even though the 'message' was so heavy-handed. Their interactions were quite good (particularly when Worf tells her about the boy he accidentally killed in his childhood) and saved the episode IMO.

Also, the pairing made sense since 1) Jadzia Dax always had a thing for Klingons (whether it came from her or from Curzon, or both), and 2) Jadzia has a few things in common with K'Ehleyr. Both of them had something Klingon and something very non-Klingon about them at the same time (a common thing for women Worf fell for, apart from Troi - remember the half-Romulan Ba'el, who did not fit in the Klingon culture, either), both were very strong and confident women who loved their freedom, were a lot more open-minded than Worf,and could drive him crazy with their irreverence about some of the values he believed in, and because he felt he could not control them.

Worf/Troi, on the other hand... seemed a bit random, and not very exciting.

I don't understand people who dislike Kira or criticize Nana Visitor's acting, and I don't understand people who find Bajorans and episodes about their politics boring.

I also don't get how some people can dislike "This Side of Paradise".

And I forgot to add - I definitely don't understand why some people claim that DS9 only got good when the Dominion was introduced, and that the first 2 seasons were weak? Come on people - the pilot, "Duet", "In The Hands of the Prophets", the Circle trilogy, "Necessary Evil", "Cardassians", "Whispers", "The Maquis", "The Wire"...?

 

[milo bloom]

Another fan of Ezri here, funny thing about that is after 6 seasons of loving Jadzia, when Ezri came in and blew me away with a true portrayal of somebody dealing with multiple personalities, I realized how shallow Jadzia's character was.

I also can enjoy the better moments of TFF and TMP and GEN.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Well...personally (and I'm resonably sure this is the reason other fans give), I think the Worf/Troi thing was taking the "opposites attract" thing a bit too far.

Sorry, but...IMHO, they're just not compatible.

Now, Jadzia/Worf was COMPLETELY believable--those two blend together wonderfully!

Just like Ezri/Julian--I tell ya, those two were MADE for each other.

I am not sure why so many people hate Worf/Jadzia. I thought they were really good and funny together. Worf was certainly funnier to watch when Jadzia was driving his crazy, than when he was just sulking and talking about honor to whoever was there. That may be why I never hated "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." even though the 'message' was so heavy-handed. Their interactions were quite good (particularly when Worf tells her about the boy he accidentally killed in his childhood) and saved the episode IMO.

Worf wasn't so bad...the problem was that I didn't think Jadzia was good enough for him. She was often belittling towards his traditions, balked at the idea of marriage, and seemed not to accept him the way he was--instead always trying to change him. That, to me, does not a good couple make. (I would also add that she'd had a lot of partners--and I guess if you've got couples with similar values and pasts...that's not so much of an issue, but Worf seemed to value traditional marriage, and a lot of times for someone with those values, past partners outside of a marriage would be a dealbreaker. And for the record, no, I do NOT like it when men sleep around, either.)

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Well...personally (and I'm resonably sure this is the reason other fans give), I think the Worf/Troi thing was taking the "opposites attract" thing a bit too far.

Sorry, but...IMHO, they're just not compatible.

Ha, fair enough. I'm not even going to try to explain why I like them together, I just do!

 

[RobertScorpio]

I never understood why there was so much criticism about mini-skirts or catsuits. Especially the mini-skirts: I always thought they looked kind of comfortable (although obviously not too practical for some away missions).

Agree about ST: TMP. One of my favorite Trek films.

Many folks seem to have distain for the Ferengi, but they're one of my favorite races in Trek.

it wasn't why the skirts were hated...it was who hated them...three simple letters; N.O.W.

Rob

 

[Pemmer Harge]

And I forgot to add - I definitely don't understand why some people claim that DS9 only got good when the Dominion was introduced, and that the first 2 seasons were weak? Come on people - the pilot, "Duet", "In The Hands of the Prophets", the Circle trilogy, "Necessary Evil", "Cardassians", "Whispers", "The Maquis", "The Wire"...?

I found much to enjoy in the first two seasons, especially season 2, which is when I think the show really started to come into its own. That said, I do think it became more consistent in season 3 and introducing the Dominion definitely improved things in my opinion.

On a different note, another unpopular thing I quite like: Keiko O'Brien.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Another fan of Ezri here, funny thing about that is after 6 seasons of loving Jadzia, when Ezri came in and blew me away with a true portrayal of somebody dealing with multiple personalities, I realized how shallow Jadzia's character was.

I also can enjoy the better moments of TFF and TMP and GEN.

I liked Ezri because she wasn't perfect...TFF is not a bad movie...and as for GENERATIONS? For me, it was the best TNG movie. Most of those great lines delivered by Mcdowell are some of the best in TREK's history...

Far better than First Contact, which to me, was a valentines presents for the so called 'target' audience; horny 14 year old boys...

Rob

 

[iguana_tonante]

Worf seemed to value traditional marriage, and a lot of times for someone with those values, past partners outside of a marriage would be a dealbreaker.

I think you are confusing the western concept of traditional marriage with klingon cultural norms. Worf is surely a traditionalist, but a klingon one, not human. He was into honor duel and blood feuds, something you don't see often in western culture. We just don't know his opinion on that.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I believe he did express his displeasure on more than one occasion: once, I believe, before the marriage, and once to Ezri.

 

[DevilEyes]

Well...personally (and I'm resonably sure this is the reason other fans give), I think the Worf/Troi thing was taking the "opposites attract" thing a bit too far.

Sorry, but...IMHO, they're just not compatible.

Now, Jadzia/Worf was COMPLETELY believable--those two blend together wonderfully!

Just like Ezri/Julian--I tell ya, those two were MADE for each other.

I am not sure why so many people hate Worf/Jadzia. I thought they were really good and funny together. Worf was certainly funnier to watch when Jadzia was driving his crazy, than when he was just sulking and talking about honor to whoever was there. That may be why I never hated "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." even though the 'message' was so heavy-handed. Their interactions were quite good (particularly when Worf tells her about the boy he accidentally killed in his childhood) and saved the episode IMO.

Worf wasn't so bad...the problem was that I didn't think Jadzia was good enough for him. She was often belittling towards his traditions, balked at the idea of marriage, and seemed not to accept him the way he was--instead always trying to change him. That, to me, does not a good couple make. (I would also add that she'd had a lot of partners--and I guess if you've got couples with similar values and pasts...that's not so much of an issue, but Worf seemed to value traditional marriage, and a lot of times for someone with those values, past partners outside of a marriage would be a dealbreaker. And for the record, no, I do NOT like it when men sleep around, either.)

Exactly why they were an interesting couple. Would you have prefered Worf in a relationship with someone who agreed in everything with him and did whatever he wanted? That would have been a snorefest. Worf's idea of Klingon honor and traditions had very little to do with reality, and I find his his ideas about marriage narrow-minded and his jealousy annoying. IMO he really needs someone to challenge him and kick some sense into him when he goes overboard with "honor" and traditions. That's why I loved Worf/K'Ehleyr. Ezri also managed to do that a couple of times (not that they were ever a good couple in a romantic sense - I cringed when they slept together - but some of their interactions were very good, as when she told him straight what she thought about the state of the Klingon Empire).

Also, when did Jadzia sleep around, and how do you know that she had had a lot of partners (not that it should matter anyway)? Who was there that we know of? Captain Boday... the guy from "Meridian"... Who else? She didn't even sleep with Bashir for all those years, and he was certainly wlling and available. Or do you mean during all Dax lifetimes over 300 years, including Curzon's and everyone else's lovers?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I had thought Jadzia had actually said she had a number of partners (or Ezri said she did?).

And what the hell is narrow-minded about believing in marriage, that you should be faithful? I can tell you, personally, that I would NOT want to be with any man who had had previous partners. A little self-control is certainly not too much to expect. Obviously other people can do what they want, but I should not have to compromise my values because others might disapprove.

And same thing for Worf--just because you disapprove does not mean he should have to compromise HIS values. They're perfectly legitimate.

 

[DevilEyes]

I had thought Jadzia had actually said she had a number of partners (or Ezri said she did?).

The only time Ezri said that was when Worf kept pestering her with questions about Captain Boday and whether Jadzia slept with him, and continued to question her who else had she slept with, until Ezri had had enough of it and started shouting at him: "Yes, she slept with hundreds, she slept with the entire station", which was obviously deliberately absurd. I thought it clearly meant: "Is that what you wanted to hear? All right then! I don't need to justify myself, or Jadzia, to you! "

And what the hell is narrow-minded about believing in marriage, that you should be faithful? I can tell you, personally, that I would NOT want to be with any man who had had previous partners.

What the hell does being faithful have to do with having had previous partners?!

There was never any indication that Jadzia was not faithful to Worf, or that she even intended or wanted to be unfaithful.

Maybe she should have started asking him about Troi?