Deanna's rank

[Uncle Sock]

First off, I absolutely love Deanna. She’s one of my favorite characters in Star Trek, and it’s a shame she didn’t get proper development until later on. So this isn’t a “she shouldn’t be there” post—I’m genuinely curious about something that’s always felt a little inconsistent to me.

How did Deanna end up as a lieutenant commander in Encounter at Farpoint aside from the obvious fact that she was amazing at her job? If we compare her to real-world career tracks, what would her résumé even look like? Bashir, for example, starts DS9 as a lieutenant (j.g.), and I’m not sure whether medical or counseling officers are supposed to begin as ensigns or come in at a higher rank. Even Ezri was promoted immediately to lieutenant junior grade after Sisko convinced Starfleet Medical to waive the rest of her training.

By that logic, if she graduated from Starfleet Academy, she’d presumably come out as at least a lieutenant junior grade. So how did she move from that to lieutenant commander so quickly? And then there’s Thine Own Self, where Deanna tells Beverly that she “doesn’t need the rank” to be a doctor. So what’s the actual logic here? If doctors and counselors don’t need rank to do their jobs, why does Deanna hold such a senior one? Again - we're not criticizing her skills and we're not saying she doesn't deserve the rank.

And here's another thing: lieutenant commander is not a junior rank. Yet in Farpoint she’s only 28. Is that a normal age for someone at that level in Starfleet, or was she supposed to be some kind of early-career standout?

Anyway—those are my questions. I’m curious how you all interpret this!

(Coincidentally, I just realized I'm a lieutenant commander myself here. )

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Maybe she posted often enough to her own forum (published psychological journal articles, in her case).

 

[fireproof78]

And here's another thing: lieutenant commander is not a junior rank. Yet in Farpoint she’s only 28. Is that a normal age for someone at that level in Starfleet, or was she supposed to be some kind of early-career standout?

The vast majority of the TNG crew were to be standouts, exceptional people who had risen quickly in their fields.

Now, as to the basic questions we have limited comparison material. Dr. Noel in TOS was a psychiatrist, yet her rank is not indicated and Memory Alpha assumes it's an enlisted rating (odd but ok ).

If Deanna carries a Master's Degree in her field (counseling or similar) then she'll likely come in to Starfleet as a lieutenant j.g. at least, if not higher depending on her time in her field and experience, based upon real world armed services. She could easily have her degree by 22 and then serve in STARFLEET from then on, 5 years in service and rising two ranks. Fast, but not entirely impossible especially if she has had her commanding officer's recommendation or possible nepotism.

 

[Farscape One]

Troi might mave been promoted to Lt. Cmdr. when she got assigned to the Enterprise, making it even more realistic. Just as Riker was promoted to full Commander he became XO of the Enterprise. (From "The Best of Both Worlds": "Sounds like a young Lt. Cmdr. I took on as first officer."

For comparison, Bashir went from Lt. j.g. to full Lt. in just under 3 years. Jadzia went from Lt. to Lt. Cmdr. in 3 years, as well. (Granted, we don't know for sure how long she was a full Lt. before she was assigned to DS9, but it's certainly possible she was promoted to full Lt. for being posted there.)

Even Harry Kim thought it was possible for him to be a Lt. Cmdr. after about 6 years and change in "NIGHTINGALE".

 

[AntonyF]

There's two elements to this: is it possible under a structure like the US navy and then Starfleet.

And... why would the writers do it?

I think the latter probably holds more sway than the former.

And why would the writers make her quite senior? I could think of a few reasons

• So she has clout when advising and even judging senior crew on their mental health.
• So she can sit next to the captain and not look a bit out of place.
• And perhaps even so she didn't feel massively different to Riker; if he were a commander and he were fraternising with someone quite junior it may seem a bit ick or a bit unethical.

 

[Oddish]

I think that Deanna was affected by the same incredibly dumb treatment that was done with Will Riker, i.e. they just made him five years younger for no reason. Had Will been 34 at the start of TNG, and Deanna 33, their ranks would have made a lot more sense. Will would have made Commander after 12 years, about what you'd expect from an excellent officer. Deanna, at 33, would have 11 years of service and be a LCDR, getting promoted to Commander at 39 or 40.

 

[Doug Otte]

No one's ages were ever stated. Where are you getting this info?

 

[Oddish]

I got Riker's age from Memory Alpha.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

2335

Lore is activated on Omicron Theta. (TNG: "Datalore") L. Isao Telaka is born. (TNG: "Unnatural Selection") February 16th – Geordi La Forge is born in Mogadishu, Somalia on Earth. (TNG: "Cause And Effect") August 19th – William T. Riker is born in Alaska on Earth. (TNG: "The Icarus Factor"...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

Odd - why does it show the year's page rather than the image file page? (Inserting the image creates only a blank gray image box)

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nepotism

 

[The Wormhole]

No one's ages were ever stated. Where are you getting this info?

IIRC, the personnel files seen in Conundrum include their birth years.

 

[Cicero]

IIRC, the personnel files seen in Conundrum include their birth years.

Riker's file wasn't in the episode (along with Geordi and Worf). I think his birthdate is a retcon from Picard.

 

[Forbin]

Deanna's rank? No, I bet she smells very nice.

 

[Mojochi]

First off, I absolutely love Deanna. She’s one of my favorite characters in Star Trek, and it’s a shame she didn’t get proper development until later on. So this isn’t a “she shouldn’t be there” post—I’m genuinely curious about something that’s always felt a little inconsistent to me.

How did Deanna end up as a lieutenant commander in Encounter at Farpoint aside from the obvious fact that she was amazing at her job? If we compare her to real-world career tracks, what would her résumé even look like? Bashir, for example, starts DS9 as a lieutenant (j.g.), and I’m not sure whether medical or counseling officers are supposed to begin as ensigns or come in at a higher rank. Even Ezri was promoted immediately to lieutenant junior grade after Sisko convinced Starfleet Medical to waive the rest of her training.

By that logic, if she graduated from Starfleet Academy, she’d presumably come out as at least a lieutenant junior grade. So how did she move from that to lieutenant commander so quickly? And then there’s Thine Own Self, where Deanna tells Beverly that she “doesn’t need the rank” to be a doctor. So what’s the actual logic here? If doctors and counselors don’t need rank to do their jobs, why does Deanna hold such a senior one? Again - we're not criticizing her skills and we're not saying she doesn't deserve the rank.

And here's another thing: lieutenant commander is not a junior rank. Yet in Farpoint she’s only 28. Is that a normal age for someone at that level in Starfleet, or was she supposed to be some kind of early-career standout?

Anyway—those are my questions. I’m curious how you all interpret this!

(Coincidentally, I just realized I'm a lieutenant commander myself here. )

Ok, let me hypothesize. We know Riker (who's only a year older than Deanna & graduated academy two years earlier than her, in 2357) met Deanna while assigned ON Betazed, between his Pegasus & Potemkin assignments, sometime between 2359 & 2361, when both were on Betazed at the same time.

So, despite running off to Starfleet Academy, one of Deanna's earliest posts was also back ON Betazed. It's probable her clingy ambassador mother arranged for her to get promotion incentives to go there & stay there a while, which might not have been available to her otherwise. This would've likely also been around the time she did psychiatric work with Betazoid patients like Tam Elbrun.

So to sum up... She graduates 2359, waits for a gig or gets a short, crappy one, mom says "I can get you a bump to LTJG, if you come home, little one". She reluctantly does, then does some good work there & gets an earned bump to full LT, sometime before the 1701-D. She falls in love there, gets ditched & languishes there, waiting on the D-bag to come back for her.

Then, in 2364, Picard sees the wasted talent (as he likely did with Data also) offers her a bump to LCDR to become his personal bridge counsel, & she jumps on it, only to be blindsided by finding out that dickhead Will took a job there too, instead of accepting the career captaincy he'd prioritized over her! She has bare minimum training in anything but her own specialty, & until the ship nearly blows up, while she's hanging around on the bridge, in civvies, for 5 years, no one ever even questions that, and it takes her over 2 more years to decide she ought to do something about it, but yeah... Data should have to call her "Sir" lol

How's that scan?