Would The Federation force the Founders to give up their God status?

[ProtoAvatar]

Re: Would The Federation force the Founders to give up their God statu

T'Girl

Most jem'hadar are in/near the dominion, near hatcheries, not on some distant battlefront.

You have your bullet factory near you.

Jem'hadar are utterly relaceable cannon fodder.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Re: Would The Federation force the Founders to give up their God statu

If your bullets replace themselves as fast as you can shoot them, it really makes no difference.

But, if your enemy is shooting directly at you, and hits you, then that can make all the difference--- mission accomplished for the enemy, lol.


From the way it looks, the Vorta are the ones running the Dominion-most Jem Hadar have never seen a Founder according to one episode.

The Vorta dispense the white, administer almost everything....

Would giving up their god status make that much difference with Jem Hadar?

Could the Vorta keep running the Dominion?

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Re: Would The Federation force the Founders to give up their God statu

If your bullets replace themselves as fast as you can shoot them, it really makes no difference.

But, if your enemy is shooting directly at you, and hits you, then that can make all the difference--- mission accomplished for the enemy, lol.

If your bullets replace themselves as fast as you can shoot them, your enemy killing you is NOT due to you not having bullets.

If you can replace jem'hadar in 3 days, you can execute jem'hadar for no reason at all - ans and be at NO disadvantage due to this.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Would The Federation force the Founders to give up their God statu

The life expectancy of jem'hadar is around 20 (at the very least);

No it isn't. their average life expectancy is fourteen or less.

DAX: How old are you?
VIRAK'KARA: I am eight.
DAX: I would've guessed at least fifteen.
Virak'Kara: Few Jem'Hadar live that long.

Virak'Kara is telling Jadzia that the majority of Jem'Hadar die before fifteen, not at fifteen.

The casualty rate of the jem'hadar per year is thoroughly established by "few jem'hadar survive to be 15"

1) I'm assuming you mean mortality rate, not casualty rate. Casualties include injured personnel who will recover.

2) Virak'Kara said nothing about any "casuality rate" being responsible for the Jem'Hadar majority not living to fifteen, that's an assumption on your part.

3) There's nothing (anywhere) in the episode To The Death that can be used to establish a "per year" rate. Unless you're assuming they die at a steady rate from the moment they reach maturity. We only know that the death rate drops off prior to their fifteenth year and their actuarial table reaches age twenty.

The number of battles the Dominion gets into is irelevant

It relevant if your position is that the Jem'Hadar are dying mainly through combat, which you seem to be doing. If the Dominion fights constant battles, only then would that be reasonable. On the other hand, if hypothetically the Dominion had fought one battle in fourteen years and the majority of the Jem'Hadar were still dying over the course of that time period, that would make the number of battle very statistically relevant.

Most jem'hadar are in/near the dominion, near hatcheries, not on some distant battlefront.

If the battlefield is in the next star system over, that would make it a distant battlefield, especially if the Founder couldn't get the Jem'Hadar reinforcements into the system.

you can execute jem'hadar for no reason at all - ans and be at NO disadvantage due to this.

Except the disadvantage of losing those particular Jem'Hadar, depending upon their ages, you lose experience, you lose leadership abilities, you lose unit cohesion, you lose force strength until you can replace them (if you even can). If your logistics are strained, you now have to transport those new Jem'Hadar soldiers, instead of what you original were going to transport. What gets left behind because you choose to execute whatever number of Jem'hadar and now have to replace them? Explosives, power generators, white, heavy weapons.

The Jem'Hadar don't need solid food, but are you willing to bet your victory they don't require water? Which is heavy. And now can't be transported to the front, because you HAVE to have those soldiers there.

A thousand Human soldiers in desert conditions require (per day) sixteen and a half tons of water.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Re: Would The Federation force the Founders to give up their God statu

From the way it looks, the Vorta are the ones running the Dominion-most Jem Hadar have never seen a Founder according to one episode.

The Vorta dispense the white, administer almost everything....

Would giving up their god status make that much difference with Jem Hadar?

Could the Vorta keep running the Dominion?

That is a very interesting question. For the most part, the Founders seem very hands-off. Female Founder even said when she came to visit Odo on the station that she was content to leave the details of the war to the Vorta. In "The Search," that guy from a conquered Dominion world (the Karemma I think? You know, the guy Quark/the Ferengi traded with?) said that he had only ever dealt with the Vorta. He had no idea who the Vorta answered to, if they answered to anyone at all: "I only know that the Vorta say to do a thing and you do it. Because if you don't, they send in the Jem'Hadar. And then you die."

It seemed to me that many of the conquered Dominion races might have thought the Vorta were the Founders, or at least the rulers of the Dominion. Also in "The Search," the simulation run on the DS9 crew has the Vorta Borath presenting his race as the Founders. Honestly, I think the only reason the Changelings revealed themselves as the true leaders of the Dominion to the Alpha Quadrant powers was because of Odo.

One wonders what would have happened if the Founders had been killed off by that virus instead of Odo healing them all. Would the Vorta and the Jem'Hadar all just have killed themselves? I can see the Jem'Hadar automatically committing suicide, but a Vorta might at least think before terminating. I think I could see a few intrepid Vorta taking charge of the Dominion, rallying the Jem'Hadar, and perhaps seeking out The Hundred Changelings to start worshipping and protecting them.

 

[Marie1]

Re: Would The Federation force the Founders to give up their God statu

If your bullets replace themselves as fast as you can shoot them, it really makes no difference.

But, if your enemy is shooting directly at you, and hits you, then that can make all the difference--- mission accomplished for the enemy, lol.

If your bullets replace themselves as fast as you can shoot them, your enemy killing you is NOT due to you not having bullets.

If you can replace jem'hadar in 3 days, you can execute jem'hadar for no reason at all - ans and be at NO disadvantage due to this.

What if you're in an area without what you need to create the Jem'Hadar and are a couple of months away from a hatchery?

 

[Nightdiamond]

Re: Would The Federation force the Founders to give up their God statu

From the way it looks, the Vorta are the ones running the Dominion-most Jem Hadar have never seen a Founder according to one episode.

The Vorta dispense the white, administer almost everything....

Would giving up their god status make that much difference with Jem Hadar?

Could the Vorta keep running the Dominion?

That is a very interesting question. For the most part, the Founders seem very hands-off. Female Founder even said when she came to visit Odo on the station that she was content to leave the details of the war to the Vorta. In "The Search," that guy from a conquered Dominion world (the Karemma I think? You know, the guy Quark/the Ferengi traded with?) said that he had only ever dealt with the Vorta. He had no idea who the Vorta answered to, if they answered to anyone at all: "I only know that the Vorta say to do a thing and you do it. Because if you don't, they send in the Jem'Hadar. And then you die."

It seemed to me that many of the conquered Dominion races might have thought the Vorta were the Founders, or at least the rulers of the Dominion. Also in "The Search," the simulation run on the DS9 crew has the Vorta Borath presenting his race as the Founders. Honestly, I think the only reason the Changelings revealed themselves as the true leaders of the Dominion to the Alpha Quadrant powers was because of Odo.

One wonders what would have happened if the Founders had been killed off by that virus instead of Odo healing them all. Would the Vorta and the Jem'Hadar all just have killed themselves?

I have to admit that this one cool setup.

Everything is so automated- the Founders just leave the details and everything else to the Vorta.

Even the Vorta themselves are "automated" ...they are going to do exactly what they are designed to do, which is run the Dominion for the Founders.

I can see the Jem'Hadar automatically committing suicide, but a Vorta might at least think before terminating. I think I could see a few intrepid Vorta taking charge of the Dominion, rallying the Jem'Hadar, and perhaps seeking out The Hundred Changelings to start worshipping and protecting them.

This might have answered some of the O.P's question...


I would have loved to see an episode showing what one of those facilities looked like, and how it operated---it would have satisfied a lot of curiosity...

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Re: Would The Federation force the Founders to give up their God statu

I would have loved to see an episode showing what one of those facilities looked like, and how it operated---it would have satisfied a lot of curiosity...

What do you mean by "facilities?" The Vorta cloning facilities, or the Jem'Hadar "hatcheries," or whatever they're called? Or maybe both?

The dynamics of the Dominion and the integration of its three main races is really very interesting, and there's so much we don't know.

It seems to me the Founders find the presence of Solids trying (FF certainly seemed to think they were tiresome), so one of the reasons they have the Vorta basically running things is so they don't have to deal with the Solid races directly. I assume they found the Vorta less "trying" then other Solids (if Weyoun 6's story is to be believed, they were perhaps the first beings that showed them any kindess, by hiding a Changeling from others who would hurt/kill them), and so they 'rewarded' them with power and responsibility (to say nothing of genetic manipulation). It's interesting, because it means the Founders must have had to be "hands-on" at some point in time during the creation of the Dominion. According to Weyoun 6, the Vorta were very primitive (ape-like) when the Changeling encountered them. One wonders if the Founders also engineered the Jem'Hadar, or the Vorta came up with the idea of these super-soliders after their own genetic engineering.