Not half as good as "All Good Things..."
Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?
- Thread starter ElimGarak
- Start date
Not half as good as "All Good Things..."
Five time better than Nemesis.
Pros - Dukat goes to hell
Anti - Sisko goes to heaven
Apart from that I like the singing hologram Vic Fontaine
Anti - Sisko goes to heaven
Apart from that I like the singing hologram Vic Fontaine
With Dukat/Winn at the fire caves they should have had them there maybe 2 episodes before the season finale, showing them briefly going through the ritual of freeing the Pah-wraiths, it wouldn't need a lot of screen time.
We would then get a better sense of how long they were there, even if it were only a couple days, It would have fitted in better with Sisko then being drawn to them as the Prophets sensed the looming danger. Rather than that plot being rushed and squeezed into the finale.
Or
even change Admiral Ross's lines where the Cardassians change sides and the Dominion retreat to Cardassia have him state "gentleman its been 3 days of bloody fighting, we've lost a 3rd of our fleet but we've pushed the Dominion back to Cardassia Prime where we can them bottled up there indefinitely. This would help give a time scale to Dukats time at the fire caves aswell and how long Sisko has been away from the station.
We would then get a better sense of how long they were there, even if it were only a couple days, It would have fitted in better with Sisko then being drawn to them as the Prophets sensed the looming danger. Rather than that plot being rushed and squeezed into the finale.
Or
even change Admiral Ross's lines where the Cardassians change sides and the Dominion retreat to Cardassia have him state "gentleman its been 3 days of bloody fighting, we've lost a 3rd of our fleet but we've pushed the Dominion back to Cardassia Prime where we can them bottled up there indefinitely. This would help give a time scale to Dukats time at the fire caves aswell and how long Sisko has been away from the station.
The Good Friday Agreement was signed in 1998, Bush wasn't even the Republican candidate at that point. And while there was certainly funding for the IRA flowing from the US, it was hardly by presidential order.
All Good Things is a near perfect Star Trek episode that also happens to work brilliantly as a finale. If that had been the last we saw of the TNG crew it would have been a fantastic send off.
What You Leave Behind is probably my second favourite ending, although only really because the other three are terrible. DS9 had written itself into a finale that was about ending the war, and it's finale was... about ending the war. Done well, granted, but fully predictable since Call to Arms if not earlier. The pah wraiths thing which they threw into the finale was a mistake in my view, a less magical Bajoran story would have been a better B plot which tied up the Emissary arc.
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It's not so much that I think DS9's premise demanded that Bajor join the Federation at the end of the series. I can see the argument that the show had moved away from that, and didn't necessarily have to go back to it.
What bursts that bubble always is: they wrapped up the political situation on Ferenginar, for gods sake! How could you possibly think that is more important to the series endgame than Bajor? Not just that, all the ways they wasted time in the final season (we're finally doing a baseball show! Detective Ezri. The MU, but as Ferengi comedy! etc) It's not that they HAD to properly resolve Bajor. It's that they resolved everything else EXCEPT Bajor.
Everytime I rewatch, I end up giving them extra points for effort on the Dukat/Winn thing. I can appreciate the intent, I see how that sounded like a better idea than it ended up being. There's another approach that could have made it work: instead of this abstract cartoon-villain goal of setting the universe on fire, Winn and Dukat are planning to bomb the signing ceremony. Instead of all the mysticism, lean into them as more lone wolf terrorists -- you can fight the huge war, but it might not save you from an individual who gets inspired by a sinister ideology and decides to cause death and mayhem. Then you can have the Sisko/Winn/Dukat climax dramatic connected to a big, meaningful event, the admission of Bajor into the Federation, rather than just cheesy theatrics in the Styrofoam Caves.
What bursts that bubble always is: they wrapped up the political situation on Ferenginar, for gods sake! How could you possibly think that is more important to the series endgame than Bajor? Not just that, all the ways they wasted time in the final season (we're finally doing a baseball show! Detective Ezri. The MU, but as Ferengi comedy! etc) It's not that they HAD to properly resolve Bajor. It's that they resolved everything else EXCEPT Bajor.
Everytime I rewatch, I end up giving them extra points for effort on the Dukat/Winn thing. I can appreciate the intent, I see how that sounded like a better idea than it ended up being. There's another approach that could have made it work: instead of this abstract cartoon-villain goal of setting the universe on fire, Winn and Dukat are planning to bomb the signing ceremony. Instead of all the mysticism, lean into them as more lone wolf terrorists -- you can fight the huge war, but it might not save you from an individual who gets inspired by a sinister ideology and decides to cause death and mayhem. Then you can have the Sisko/Winn/Dukat climax dramatic connected to a big, meaningful event, the admission of Bajor into the Federation, rather than just cheesy theatrics in the Styrofoam Caves.
Early Kira was more annoying and grating to me than early Bashir. I'm not sure if I were her superior I could put up with her tantrums, rantings, aggressive and sometimes nearly insubordinate behavior-like that time when she went around Sisko's back and complained to an admiral in a meeting.
It wasn't just that incident she through fits at Bajoran politicians that got in the way of her duties, she seemed incapable of lightening up "I imagined the Cardassians would go away".
Sisko had a lot of tolerance to put up with her behavior.
Sisko had a lot of tolerance to put up with her behavior.
She'd been a victim of Cardassion oppression for essentially her entire life, was given a position she didn't even want working for people she didn't think should be there to begin with because of a government she wasn't convinced would survive, and we're never given any evidence that her attitude actually got in the way of her effectiveness.
How about cutting her a little slack?
How about cutting her a little slack?
The only time I ever agreed with Kai Wynn was when she said to Kira "Don't ever speak to me so disrespectfully again." (paraphrasing) No matter how much of an ambitious opportunist Wynn was, I couldn't believe the way Kira was addressing her in that episode. It was nice to see her gain some more maturity later on.
I'm always shocked by how openly rude people are to Winn. Somewhere in there ("Rapture"?), there's this one bit where Jake tosses off some bitchy remark about her, directly in front of her but without even looking at her. And all I can think of is "that's the pope! You can't be that nasty to the pope's face!"
Or Kira and Sisko receiving Zek in "Rules Of Acquisition"! So openly insulting, and he's a visiting head of state!
(Though, now that I think about, I suppose there is... a certain government leader who I would blatantly insult, if I were to somehow be interacting with him face-to-face)
Kira's tomboyishness can be especially grating in the early part of the show. I get she's a resistance fighter and not a diplomat with years of training in the "be nice and reasonable school" but I find it hard to believe her superiors would tolerate her attitude and temper tantrums.
Okay, a pope, but more of a Leo X than a Paul VI...
