I'd say the answer is "yes," resoundingly so! As a child, I liked candy. As an adult, I like candy. In the same way STAR TREK, in all of its many forms and guises is comfort food.
Why Voyager was a Disappointment
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And if they weren't required much at all?
Building a fancy shuttle isn't that hard compared to replicating advanced tech from the 30th Century.
Well, to be fair they also forgot that it was established that the Warp Drive was fast enough to cover thousands of Light Years in hours. Following that, they should've been home in weeks.
If they did that, then the show would've been over by first season. It's part of the Gilligan Syndrome the show suffered from.
Then they shouldn't be complaining to the degree that they do, because it does sound like they just wanted Secondaries in every single episode.
Continuity, consequences, etc...
Thing from the past were mentioned, just not every single freaking time.
Yes, and seeing that Deck only once was just another complaint lodged against the show!
And if those Secondaries were truly unneeded, there wouldn't be complaints they weren't seen more.
Voyager seemed to have one 8th the crew of Enterprise D.
But... What was the ratio of crew to civilians on PIcard's Enterprise?
If it was 1:1, then Voyager only had a third Enterprises crew.
Just because one ship is bigger, it doesn't mean that it needs more crew to run a standardized engineering, if most of the additional tonnage is more cargo bays.
Yes a larger ship should need a larger crew since maintenance is constant, but a ship tens times as large, should not need tens time the crew.
But... What was the ratio of crew to civilians on PIcard's Enterprise?
If it was 1:1, then Voyager only had a third Enterprises crew.
Just because one ship is bigger, it doesn't mean that it needs more crew to run a standardized engineering, if most of the additional tonnage is more cargo bays.
Yes a larger ship should need a larger crew since maintenance is constant, but a ship tens times as large, should not need tens time the crew.
What? 1:1? Surely not. Why that would be like a Hotel!
Oh.
Oh.
If each crew had a civilian spouse and three children, we could be looking at a ratio of 1:4 (Crew: Civilians.) which means that Janeways crew and Picard's crew are exactly the same size almost.
The regular universe Enterprise also had 42 decks, but did they have room for another 5 thousand people?
The regular universe Enterprise also had 42 decks, but did they have room for another 5 thousand people?
For the War. Refugees.
Yup. Although, I'd say that the original design would have been barracks that could be converted into cargo bays, rather than the other way around.
Yes, secondaries should matter to some degree. Chief O'Brian, Leeta, and a variety of others were all established as just one off's who got to continue. Again, VOY had some that worked very well, such as Jonas or Hogan. But, some got forgotten for seasons worth of time only to be killed before getting home. Inconsistency is hard to accept when it is so common in a show.
The thing about continuity is that it allows things to matter, even if they don't stay in the same place. The production of VOY showed little interest in the continuity of characterization, much less of data points from episode to episode.
Finally, the trend I've noticed is that somehow in order to build VOY up as not a disappointment or bad television someone has to be torn down. I'm still trying to figure out the VOY conspiracy that is trying to rob the show of its original glory and left us with disappointment
The thing about continuity is that it allows things to matter, even if they don't stay in the same place. The production of VOY showed little interest in the continuity of characterization, much less of data points from episode to episode.
Finally, the trend I've noticed is that somehow in order to build VOY up as not a disappointment or bad television someone has to be torn down. I'm still trying to figure out the VOY conspiracy that is trying to rob the show of its original glory and left us with disappointment
Problem was that they couldn't even get the main cast to work, all putting more emphasis on Secondaries would've done at the time was just make the main cast more uncooperative.
This was partly the fault of the cast (especially Beltran and Wang) for not caring for their own work. It further supports my theory that they should've just thinned the cast down. It means fewer Centrals and more for them to do comparatively.
Failing that, just recast the ones not working with ones who will play ball.
Hardly unique to Trek, or television. Believe me.
Carey had 7 episodes.
Sam Wildman had 7 episodes.
Voyager didn't have real secondaries until Scarlet and Manu signed up.
Sam Wildman had 7 episodes.
Voyager didn't have real secondaries until Scarlet and Manu signed up.
No, it's not new to Trek. Nothing VOY encountered was new to Trek beyond the idea that they were stranded and it would take longer than an hour to get home. Heck, on this board there is a whole thread about "hating" Abrams Trek movies.
VOY was a disappointment for many, and does not get a pass because it has "Star Trek" in the name or because of obstacles that hindered development in some way. If there was a problem with casting, writing, acting, etc. then it falls on the producers and TPTB, not any portion of the viewing audience.
Whaaaat??? x2
Maybe, MAYBE I could see S1 of DS9 being the same quality as Voyager. But after that? No way. The Dominion War arc blows even the best Voy episodes out of the water. DS9 had all the character development that Voyager lacked.
DS9 had access to the rest of the Trekverse to do their big war story with. VOY had no such advantages.
Except Voyager could have advantages that they could have taken advantage of, but didn't.
We could have a show about a crew in a desperate survival situation, having to adapt to this new situation and do some unorthodox things to survive. The fact they were cut off from the rest Trek Universe could have been a strength, not a weakness.
Instead we get TNG 2.0, the ship gets damaged and is fine the next episode, the have enough power for Holodeck adventures, it is too comfortable for the situation they are in. That undermines any sort drama that could be gleamed from this situation.
Still, the amount of abuse they got (and still get) from the audience is pretty over-the-top.
That's only enough of a plot for 1 season or so, it's just not sustainable. That's why ever single "Lost Ship" show of the last 40 years worth remembering only made it to 4 seasons (at most) and almost always dropped the "Lost Ship" thing after one season.
Constantly giving bad performances and bungling any opportunities given to them made the writers sideline them to keep their screw-ups as off-screen as possible. If they'd been willing to play ball and do their jobs they'd get more writing and more characterization.
Their performances seemed fine to me, pretty good in their centric episodes. The worst thing I've heard is that wang was late to some of the production, but still I just find it hard to believe that the burden is on the actor rather than the writers, especially considering that Kes was also side lined and she had great acting ability.
Plus I read a thing where Beltran was pretty outspoken about wanting more things to do in the later seasons.
Plus I read a thing where Beltran was pretty outspoken about wanting more things to do in the later seasons.
Mental cases say "ranted" but what Rob said on the DVD extras seems entirely reasonable.
He wanted more, but they wouldn't let him leave.
He wanted more, but they wouldn't let him leave.
It doesn't matter how old or a new a shot/film is, some people might have never seen it before so air their critisims/praise for it. Sure it might be the same as others have done in the past but that doesn't mean it's any less valid. It also could serve to remind TPTB of what portions of the audiance like or don' like as a viewing audiance.
Once again how is it the fault of the audiance if the cast give poor performances? They hired the actors, if they weren't up to scracth they should have gotten rid of them, if they were sensible they would have had a clause in the actors contract that allowed them not to picked up when the season ended.
I don't see how Battlestar Galactica dropped its premise after season 1, they found one other ship, I think they stuck with the premise through the 4 seasons.
I would liked Voyager to at least have tried to stick to its original premise, we see that they did that in the episode "The Void", what is the point of putting Voyager in the DQ if all we were going to get is old rejected TNG scripts rather then something new? There should have been no Holodeck episodes, power should have been just for critical systems, it should not have been as comfortable as the Enterprise D.
NuBSG fell apart after only 2 seasons, the rot set in by Season 3 and they needed a literal Deus Ex Machina to end things in S4 because they had no other idea how to end the show. Moore is infamously bad at writing endings.
And even then, they had more to their plot than "Lost Ship" from day one.
They tried new plots with "Scorpion" or "The Void" and got nothing but critical panning for all their troubles.
They did the Holodeck episodes because they had a ton of period piece props leftover from TNG. If they'd done what Berman wanted and waited til after DS9 to make the show they'd have had their leftover Cardassian and Dominion props to do more DQ stuff with.
The big problem was the show suffered from Gilligan Syndrome. They couldn't accomplish anything without ending the show so they had to constantly fail at everything.
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