Why Voyager was a Disappointment

[The Hooded Man]

The thing that turned me from a fan of the show to just a casual viewer was how quickly and easily the friction between the two halves of the blended Fed/Maquis crew was forgotten. The pilot and first handful of episodes showed such potential, but the ball was dropped and it just became more of the same, but with different foreheads.

It was still Trek and even bad TV Trek is worth watching just for the spaceships alone, but it didn't have the shiny new gloss of TNG or DS9's bite to make it truly great.

I'm currently revisiting Enterprise and am rather pleasantly surprised by how much I'm enjoying that one. Perhaps I should schedule my first rewatch of Voyager for when I'm done. It would be interesting to see what I make of that early half of season one now.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I wouldn't call it a disappointment because its always been a part of the Star Trek milieu to me (I'm a youngin'!), and I think it's a good show.

I could understand how someone would be disappointed though. Especially if they were riding the hype train before the show aired. Or if they were impressionable and decided to complain about the show because all the other True Believers were.

People tend to bring up Year of Hell a lot as a "should have" for the show, but episodes like The Void and Worst Case Scenario, Equinox, hell, most of the two-parters, I think are more in line with the expectation that seemed to have built in people's minds. But I wasn't onboard the hype train, so I can't exactly speak for the passengers that were.

But like I said, I feel differently. Voyager is a satisfying entry in the franchise and its only crime is not pushing the envelope. And when I say crime, imagine me doing the sarcastic finger quotes thing. Voyager sports a few of my favorite Trek episodes, like The Thaw and Living Witness, Nothing Human, Blink of An Eye, and One Small Step.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Voyager didn't have the slightest bit of continuity. They didn't even keep a count of living crew members for reference. Secondary characters were mentioned in one episode then never referenced again.

Voyager didn't have to be as serialized as Battlestar Galactica in order to claim it had some kind of continuity. It just had to take accurate notes and then reference those notes in situations where it would be important. There was no good reason (Except of course cost) not to have a strong recurring secondary cast like DS9 did.

They could have still made every episode self-contained without completely ignoring things established in previous episodes or the consequences of things they establish in their current episode.

They had such great opportunities to make some of their decent episodes into really good episodes if they just allowed the writers to have a long term memory. Lindsay Ballard? You didn't know she existed so what do you care if she was back from the dead? What if they had established her as a recurring secondary character then have her die in some redshirtesque way that would leave the fans raw before bringing her back? That episode could have had so much more emotional impact if they just did it with a character we previously gave a crap about.

They even had memorable secondary characters in season 1 and 2. Then they either killed them all off or pretended they never existed and they stopped establishing any recurring characters whatsoever who were neither children nor related to one.

 

[MacLeod]

Voyager didn't have the slightest bit of continuity. They didn't even keep a count of living crew members for reference. Secondary characters were mentioned in one episode then never referenced again.

Voyager didn't have to be as serialized as Battlestar Galactica in order to claim it had some kind of continuity. It just had to take accurate notes and then reference those notes in situations where it would be important. There was no good reason (Except of course cost) not to have a strong recurring secondary cast like DS9 did.

They could have still made every episode self-contained without completely ignoring things established in previous episodes or the consequences of things they establish in their current episode.

They had such great opportunities to make some of their decent episodes into really good episodes if they just allowed the writers to have a long term memory. Lindsay Ballard? You didn't know she existed so what do you care if she was back from the dead? What if they had established her as a recurring secondary character then have her die in some redshirtesque way that would leave the fans raw before bringing her back? That episode could have had so much more emotional impact if they just did it with a character we previously gave a crap about.

They even had memorable secondary characters in season 1 and 2. Then they either killed them all off or pretended they never existed and they stopped establishing any recurring characters whatsoever who were neither children nor related to one.

Now whilst I enjoyed "Ashes to Ashes" the episode with Lyndsay Ballard, I think it would have been better if they brough back Anhi Jetal (the back story for both characters was similar enough) from "Latent Image" another decent episode..

 

[Guy Gardener]

Voyager didn't accidentally have bad continuity, it purposely had bad continuity.

Anything that was not self contained angered the moneymen who shook their fists and threatened to fire people.

Voyager had the perfect amount of continuity it desired, and therefore had good continuity.

 

[Drusilla]

I think it was at least as strong as DS9...

Whaaaat??? x2

Maybe, MAYBE I could see S1 of DS9 being the same quality as Voyager. But after that? No way. The Dominion War arc blows even the best Voy episodes out of the water. DS9 had all the character development that Voyager lacked.

 

[Lance]

I think it was at least as strong as DS9...

Whaaaat??? x2

Maybe, MAYBE I could see S1 of DS9 being the same quality as Voyager. But after that? No way. The Dominion War arc blows even the best Voy episodes out of the water. DS9 had all the character development that Voyager lacked.

And I've already addressed that point two pages ago. Next time, please read all the posts in a thread before you choose to take my comments out of context.

 

[fireproof78]

Voyager didn't have the slightest bit of continuity. They didn't even keep a count of living crew members for reference. Secondary characters were mentioned in one episode then never referenced again.

Voyager didn't have to be as serialized as Battlestar Galactica in order to claim it had some kind of continuity. It just had to take accurate notes and then reference those notes in situations where it would be important. There was no good reason (Except of course cost) not to have a strong recurring secondary cast like DS9 did.

They could have still made every episode self-contained without completely ignoring things established in previous episodes or the consequences of things they establish in their current episode.

They had such great opportunities to make some of their decent episodes into really good episodes if they just allowed the writers to have a long term memory. Lindsay Ballard? You didn't know she existed so what do you care if she was back from the dead? What if they had established her as a recurring secondary character then have her die in some redshirtesque way that would leave the fans raw before bringing her back? That episode could have had so much more emotional impact if they just did it with a character we previously gave a crap about.

They even had memorable secondary characters in season 1 and 2. Then they either killed them all off or pretended they never existed and they stopped establishing any recurring characters whatsoever who were neither children nor related to one.

This is a good point, in my opinion. There were many bit parts that really could have mattered more.

Continuity is not just about counting shuttles or keeping track of crewmembers, though that is a bit of nitpicking fun. But, when you have problems created for the crew to deal with that were already answered in a previous episode, it strains my suspension of disbelief.

Now, I can enjoy VOY to a certain degree, but it could have been a whole lot more. That is why it bothers me now, when I'm a bit older and able to connect the dots more.

Continuity may not mean the same thing to everyone, but to me, when I can watch shows like Red vs. Blue and they can have continuity and reference characters in a consistent manner, but VOY seems to lack that consistency.

As the OP asked, VOY is a disappointment, mostly because of that inconsistency, for me.

 

[Anwar]

I think it was at least as strong as DS9...

Whaaaat??? x2

Maybe, MAYBE I could see S1 of DS9 being the same quality as Voyager. But after that? No way. The Dominion War arc blows even the best Voy episodes out of the water. DS9 had all the character development that Voyager lacked.

DS9 had access to the rest of the Trekverse to do their big war story with. VOY had no such advantages.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

VOY didn't need the rest of the 'verse.

 

[Anwar]

Voyager didn't have the slightest bit of continuity. They didn't even keep a count of living crew members for reference. Secondary characters were mentioned in one episode then never referenced again.

So just like TOS and TNG and (sometimes) DS9?

There was no good reason (Except of course cost) not to have a strong recurring secondary cast like DS9 did.

Since they were on a small ship nobody ever left, once they introduced background characters they'd have to include them in every single story unless they could think of a reason to get away from them and not mention them.

DS9 had access to the rest of the Trekverse to bring their secondary characters in from. VOY had no such luxury.

They could have still made every episode self-contained without completely ignoring things established in previous episodes or the consequences of things they establish in their current episode.

And if anyone missed those prior episodes, they'd have to waste time bringing everyone up to speed they could otherwise spend on the episode.

They rarely outright ignored prior stuff anyways.

Lindsay Ballard? You didn't know she existed so what do you care if she was back from the dead? What if they had established her as a recurring secondary character then have her die in some redshirtesque way that would leave the fans raw before bringing her back? That episode could have had so much more emotional impact if they just did it with a character we previously gave a crap about.

Like I said, once they introduce her they'd have to contrive a reason to not have her be in every single episode from then on until they finally got tired of her and killed her off.

They even had memorable secondary characters in season 1 and 2. Then they either killed them all off or pretended they never existed and they stopped establishing any recurring characters whatsoever who were neither children nor related to one.

Cause they'd have to explain why they weren't in every episode after their introduction.

NuBSG had the advantage of having a huge armada they could ditch said characters off in to get away from them, DS9 could ship them somewhere else until they were needed. VOY was a tiny scout ship that had no such luxury.

 

[Anwar]

VOY didn't need the rest of the 'verse.

They kind of did. There's little of interest in VOY being totally alone in the entire Universe with nothing out there.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

VOY doesn't need the rest of the 'quadrants.

 

[fireproof78]

VOY didn't need the rest of the 'verse.

VOY had an entire new 'verse to explore. Just didn't felt like it mattered at all

 

[Anwar]

VOY didn't need the rest of the 'verse.

VOY had an entire new 'verse to explore. Just didn't felt like it mattered at all

And they'd need to be able to stick around long enough to flesh out those areas and have some connection to the Delta Quadrant in the first place.

Unfortunately, whenever they did hang out for more than one episode all they got was panning and they had no connection to the Delta Quadrant meaning they was no point in trying to make any since that would just get them more panning.

DS9 had Odo and his connection to the Founders to give us connection, Farscape had the majority of the cast be natives of the areas who already had a connection to the Peacekeepers (or be Peacekeepers).

VOY had no connection to anything, and the audience wouldn't give them the time needed to make a connection that would justify them staying in the same place for years.

 

[fireproof78]

VOY didn't need the rest of the 'verse.

VOY had an entire new 'verse to explore. Just didn't felt like it mattered at all

And they'd need to be able to stick around long enough to flesh out those areas and have some connection to the Delta Quadrant in the first place.

Unfortunately, whenever they did hang out for more than one episode all they got was panning and they had no connection to the Delta Quadrant meaning they was no point in trying to make any since that would just get them more panning.

DS9 had Odo and his connection to the Founders to give us connection, Farscape had the majority of the cast be natives of the areas who already had a connection to the Peacekeepers (or be Peacekeepers).

VOY had no connection to anything, and the audience wouldn't give them the time needed to make a connection that would justify them staying in the same place for years.

I think we have had this conversation before and established that VOY suffered from a lack of consistency that stemmed from the top down, and not the viewing audience.

Besides that, VOY could have established connections through a variety of ways, like Farscape did, like DS9 did. VOY had time, and made some poor use of it, in my opinion. I guess my frustration is that VOY didn't have to be the way it ended up. That is what is disappointing.

Beyond that, it provided some interesting characters, as well as a fascinating look in to the development of AI in the Trek universe with the Doctor. Would have been neat to see that cross over with DS9 with Dr. Zimmerman and Dr. Bashier talking more after VOY arrived back.

There is so much possibility and I think it could have been explored, much in the way that the Gamma Quadrant unfolded on DS9. Given how often we see the Borg in VOY there is no problem in having that tie while VOY moved on.

 

[Guy Gardener]

This forum is a time loop.

You have had this conversation before and you will have it again.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Tuvix. MOIDER!!!! Kes was a child.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You just gave me a Hart to Hart flashback.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

And you just gave me a flashback to a decade I disowned.