Why Voyager was a Disappointment
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"The Void" is kind of the premise of the show in microcosm.
Voyager, alone and vulnerable in a dangerous part of space, battling against aliens with their own agendas and cultures who prey on each other and have lots of preconceived hatreds.
And then, along comes Captain Janeway, who uses her own Federation values to help forge alliances between these dispariate peoples of the Delta Quadrant in a way they've never seen before. Making friends both of them, and between them.
Doesn't that sound great? A very 'Star Trek' idea.
When Captain Kate speaks lovingly of using the founding principals of the Federation to bring everybody together in that episode, I was like, 'Yeah! That's what the whole damn show should have been about all along!'
All this stuff about the 'journey home' is really side-tracking from the heart of the idea, which was a sort of reset of Star Trek, a back-to-basics approach.
Instead, we settled into Forehead-Of-The-Week aliens and almost no sense of what the wider universe was actually like, because Voyager's quest to return home meant they never actually hung around anywhere long enough to get to know anybody.
Voyager, alone and vulnerable in a dangerous part of space, battling against aliens with their own agendas and cultures who prey on each other and have lots of preconceived hatreds.
And then, along comes Captain Janeway, who uses her own Federation values to help forge alliances between these dispariate peoples of the Delta Quadrant in a way they've never seen before. Making friends both of them, and between them.
Doesn't that sound great? A very 'Star Trek' idea.
When Captain Kate speaks lovingly of using the founding principals of the Federation to bring everybody together in that episode, I was like, 'Yeah! That's what the whole damn show should have been about all along!'
All this stuff about the 'journey home' is really side-tracking from the heart of the idea, which was a sort of reset of Star Trek, a back-to-basics approach.
Instead, we settled into Forehead-Of-The-Week aliens and almost no sense of what the wider universe was actually like, because Voyager's quest to return home meant they never actually hung around anywhere long enough to get to know anybody.
The audience complained whenever any aliens showed up more than once, and thought that it made no sense for them to bother getting involved in local affairs instead of gunning it for home. It's kind of hard to do a Delta Federation story when the core premise (going home) directly counters it.
As well as the "No Support" part of the premise. That meant no allies, ever.
As well as the "No Support" part of the premise. That meant no allies, ever.
^ I guess that's my point. There's so many contradictions inherent in the format itself, that in many ways what makes the most sense for the show Voyager wanted to be is in direct violation of the basic format set out for it in the beginning (and stringently followed thereafter).
That it was also on a network, and didn't have the flexibility to change gears like the syndicated DS9 (or even TNG), also meant that 'Voyager is on a mission to return home' was the modus operandi that stopped them ever doing anything dynamic with the series. It was like a commandment towards the writers that could not be disobeyed, even though the point of stranding Voyager in this unknown area of space was, on paper at least, supposed to give them complete freedom to do virtually anything.
So instead, we'd get these isolated adventures... occasionally, as with "The Void" or "Year Of Hell" or "The Killing Game" or "Counterpoint" or many other dark and edgy instalments... which gave us a glimpse of the show Voyager could have been, but ultimately wasn't (on a regular basis at least). Which is the point I was making earlier about isolated episodes of VOY matching up to the best of DS9, but that VOY lacked the consistency of pushing those boundaries every single week.
Like I say, there were contradictions there. Not least being, as you say, that the contemporary audience (ironically) tended to like Voyager's lack of dynamism, and were less sure of the huge changes that DS9 had wrought. Only through the passage of time has that opinion done a complete turnabout.
That it was also on a network, and didn't have the flexibility to change gears like the syndicated DS9 (or even TNG), also meant that 'Voyager is on a mission to return home' was the modus operandi that stopped them ever doing anything dynamic with the series. It was like a commandment towards the writers that could not be disobeyed, even though the point of stranding Voyager in this unknown area of space was, on paper at least, supposed to give them complete freedom to do virtually anything.
So instead, we'd get these isolated adventures... occasionally, as with "The Void" or "Year Of Hell" or "The Killing Game" or "Counterpoint" or many other dark and edgy instalments... which gave us a glimpse of the show Voyager could have been, but ultimately wasn't (on a regular basis at least). Which is the point I was making earlier about isolated episodes of VOY matching up to the best of DS9, but that VOY lacked the consistency of pushing those boundaries every single week.
Like I say, there were contradictions there. Not least being, as you say, that the contemporary audience (ironically) tended to like Voyager's lack of dynamism, and were less sure of the huge changes that DS9 had wrought. Only through the passage of time has that opinion done a complete turnabout.
No worse than the abuse Abrams gets, that Bennet and Meyer got for killing Spock (death threats), that various shows and their creative staff have suffered over the years.
Sorry, I don't buy in to the idea that VOY gets disparaged more than another series, especially when it was lackluster in terms of performance.
It may get more because it had less that remarkable show running, and poorly thought out story telling, but those would be legitimate criticisms, not "over-the-top" abuse.
Also, the "audience" (in whatever form) is not consistent in its opinion of VOY-some like it, and some don't and many are in-between. All evidence that I can find points towards a general disinterest in Trek, that follows a pattern with DS9, and Trek in general.
If people enjoy VOY and are fans of it, that's fine, and I wish no ill will. However, that does not mean that I cannot find fault in the show, its writing or execution, or speculate that things could have been a whole lot better. Because, it really could have been better, and stepped out from under TNG and DS9's shadow. That's the more disappointing part.
^ I guess that's my point. There's so many contradictions inherent in the format itself, that in many ways what makes the most sense for the show Voyager wanted to be is in direct violation of the basic format set out for it in the beginning (and stringently followed thereafter).
That it was also on a network, and didn't have the flexibility to change gears like the syndicated DS9 (or even TNG), also meant that 'Voyager is on a mission to return home' was the modus operandi that stopped them ever doing anything dynamic with the series. It was like a commandment towards the writers that could not be disobeyed, even though the point of stranding Voyager in this unknown area of space was, on paper at least, supposed to give them complete freedom to do virtually anything.
So instead, we'd get these isolated adventures... occasionally, as with "The Void" or "Year Of Hell" or "The Killing Game" or "Counterpoint" or many other dark and edgy instalments... which gave us a glimpse of the show Voyager could have been, but ultimately wasn't (on a regular basis at least). Which is the point I was making earlier about isolated episodes of VOY matching up to the best of DS9, but that VOY lacked the consistency of pushing those boundaries every single week.
Like I say, there were contradictions there. Not least being, as you say, that the contemporary audience (ironically) tended to like Voyager's lack of dynamism, and were less sure of the huge changes that DS9 had wrought. Only through the passage of time has that opinion done a complete turnabout.
Well said
People at least look back on those other previously-disliked shows more objectively and see the good points. What good there was in VOY is constantly overlooked (the Doctor, "Living Witness", the 8472 Aliens, "Scorpion", etc) and usually just met with the same derision.
The show just came at the wrong time. And needed more thought put into it.
Without more thought put into the plot beyond its core premise, there's only 2 seasons worth of story there.
I have yet to find the "derision" of Scorpion, or other such episodes to be the prevailing opinion. Scorpion is regularly regarded as one VOY's best work and received positively, at least from what reviews I can find, read and review. Oh, I know there are detractors out there, but that is true of every show and movie. Insurrection suffered a lot of diminished returns after an initial success. As I have asserted before, VOY receives more criticism because there is more to criticize. 7 years but lacking the growth, the characterization and development that TNG and DS9 ultimately offered, means that there is a lot more material to be disappointed in.
VOY could have been a lot better, and there could be a lot of some development beyond the "Lost Ship" premise that it began with. But, that, again is no the fault of the audience. Like I said before, the writers and creators desired strongly to do something different, but never really delivered on that premise. And, yes, we can argue about the merits and weaknesses inherit in the Lost Ship premise, but it seems to me that any suggestions to make VOY better or use the Lost Ship premise as a starting point, and expand the world by beginning with the Lost Ship and then moving it towards a different premise. Obviously, they did so from time to time, with making contact with Starfleet, and things like that, so it is not outside the realm of possibility. It just was never done in a way that felt like it mattered.
Then the audience wouldn't be PO'ed that the Borg weren't portrayed as invincible.
Sure, if the audience didn't hate every single attempt to be more than a "Lost Ship" show.
They tried, and got nothing but panning for their trouble.
Yeah, and the audience hated those plot points too!
Now I'm going to have to ask for evidence of this audience "hatred." I have yet to find it to the degree that is being described, save for certain circles, were the opinion has been repeated so often as to become rote. As I have repeatedly stated, the reviews, trends and opinions are ones of either enjoyment or disappointment, with all the variation that one would expect.
To give a quick example, one board I was a member of (not this one) had a strong "dislike" opinion of Trek 09, and even stronger negative view of ID. Even some opinions that Abrams had betrayed the very ideals of Trek and needed to offer a public apology. Now, a brief reading of that board would indicate the the opinion of Abrams Trek was one of hatred. But, that is a brief descriptor that misses many of the arguments, both for and against.
By the way, being annoyed that the Borg were not "invincible" is not the same as hating an entire episode. Species 8472 was a creative new alien, that was a little more alien, but was not very well thought out beyond, "Guys who can defeat the Borg." Unfortunately, there is not a lot more life beyond that with such a scant descriptor.
The overall opinion of the show wouldn't be as negative as it is with no objectivity even after all these years if it wasn't for the overriding hatred of the show.
I didn't like NuTrek 09 much, and I've never seen ID. So I can't comment.
The episode was about the Borg no longer being invincible. So disliking that aspect means you hate the episode.
There's not much life in the Borg either, since they're nothing but Space Zombies.
Well, we will have to agree to disagree. First of all, if the quality of a show is bad, it is going to be recognized as bad for years and years to come. The passage of time does not filter a show or film and make it better, somehow. I have a negative opinion of VOY because the quality was lacking, not because I went in to it to hate it, for whatever reason. Similarly, the negative opinions I have read or listened to about VOY are due to the lack of quality of VOY, just like opinions are expressed against, say "Outrageous Okana," because the quality was lacking. VOY just had more material that was often poor quality, as has been driven in to the ground as a point, which means there is more to be disappointed by. Disappointment, by the way, does not equal hatred.
Also, I have no doubt that Abrams films will continue to be derided as bad Trek for years and years to come. Does that mean that "the audience" hated it as well?
By the way, if there is not much life in the Borg, why did both VOY and TNG return to them so much, and even featured them in ENT? I mean, their return in VOY was a bit lackluster, and was worn out due to their multiple defeats, making them more of a laughable villain than a true threat, but VOY did make some interesting choices to expand the Borg and their own version of culture. The creative choices for the Borg that led to so much disappointment wasn't they were made mortal, but that they could defeated again and again by a ship that (supposedly) lacking in resources.
Similarly, Species 8472, if they had been more defined, could have given a real new threat, able to appear and disappear without warning. Interesting idea, and would provide a reason why they would be seen so infrequently.
But, you know, that's just an idea of how to make VOY better, and that can't happen
Even "Lost in Space"'s worst episodes don't get the hate VOY does.
Because they look cool and had one good story that gets overblown by the fandom. BOBW had plenty of flaws in it that don't get recognized.
It was that they weren't invincible. And this further shows what a bad idea "Lost Ship" is, given how badly it constrains the writers in terms of antagonists.
If VOY was about more than just one Lost Ship that a kick in the shins would blow up, and they were given a Delta Federation of their own and tons of cannon fodder to sacrifice to their enemies to kill off without ever harming Voyager and its crew, THEN there's more to work with.
Also resolving the "Lost" thing by having them re-establish contact in Season 1 or have them get home by S1 but have to go back to the Delta Quadrant, then there's more to work with.
VOY was bad, but dig deep enough in to the Internet and I'm sure you will find other shows that are being eviscerated. Or, better yet, just Google "Abrams sucks" and you can be entertained by the rage that is unleashed against nuTrek around the Internet.
The thing about VOY is that there is not a lot of good to prop it up despite the bad. BOBW's flaws get overlooked because of the drama and character moments that make that piece a classic Trek episode. Likewise, TWOK, as a film, has several flaws and plot holes, but once again get overlooked for the tone and artistry being expressed in that work.
Like I said, it isn't that VOY didn't have good. It's that the bad outweighed the good, for a variety of reasons. It was a poor product, for all the reasons discussed prior to this, and thus gets reviewed the way it does. It isn't a universal hatred, as I have said, though, since a quick Internet review of VOY brought back some positive results as well as negative ones.
VOY is not being persecuted or unreasonable critiqued. It just didn't have that much good, in my opinion. Others may disagree, and that's fine. I think Abrams gets unfairly picked on constantly, but that doesn't make it a conspiracy or that he is "hated."
By the way, "The Lost Ship" premise that is lamented so much, was put on by the producers themselves. So, I really have no sympathy for them if they insisted upon that box.
Easy.
Audience = Anwar.
He speaks for them all, hence if he said it then its what "the audience" felt/did/said/etc.
You know I'm sure several people including myself have highlighted "Living Witness" despite it's plot holes was one of VOY's better episode and the EMH was one of the better characters created for the show. So Anwars asserstion that that the good is always overlooked is not entirely valid.
As for LiS doesn't it come down to expectations, after a strong inital season did it get critisims for focussing on Will Robinson, Dr. Smith and the Robot as well basically the same plot Dr. Smith tries to sell out the others (ok maybe a bit overstated). Perhaps expectations for VOY on the part of some of the audiance were too high. But in general terms the more you are being entertained the less you look at the flaws/weakness of a particular episode, if you aren't fully being entertained those same flaws/weakness come to the front. We all have our own likes and dislikes and for me VOY was overall an average show, sure it had it moments but for me they were fewer than the likes of TNG and DSN and even TOS had. For me those shows were more consistanly good or very good (except for certain seasons) that's the difference VOY wasn't a bad show but nor was it a great show show it was just average overall.
As for LiS doesn't it come down to expectations, after a strong inital season did it get critisims for focussing on Will Robinson, Dr. Smith and the Robot as well basically the same plot Dr. Smith tries to sell out the others (ok maybe a bit overstated). Perhaps expectations for VOY on the part of some of the audiance were too high. But in general terms the more you are being entertained the less you look at the flaws/weakness of a particular episode, if you aren't fully being entertained those same flaws/weakness come to the front. We all have our own likes and dislikes and for me VOY was overall an average show, sure it had it moments but for me they were fewer than the likes of TNG and DSN and even TOS had. For me those shows were more consistanly good or very good (except for certain seasons) that's the difference VOY wasn't a bad show but nor was it a great show show it was just average overall.
That's just zeitgeist, VOY's hatred still burns too hot for it to be like that.
If BOBW or WOK had been VOY episodes, I'm pretty sure those plot holes that are overlooked would be pointed out a lot more.
They didn't. They tried to break out of it (Scorpion, the Void, just to name 2) and got nothing but panning for their troubles.
Nope, I'm not buying that. What indication of panning is there, when the viewership increased with Scorpion? This is an opinion, and an interesting one, but not one supported by any verifiable evidence.
Also, the Lost Ship idea, if it had been foisted upon by the audience, then there would not be BTS information from Piller, Taylor and others indicating that they chose such a premise to liberate themselves from the confines of the current arcs in TNG and DS9. So, I'm not buying that they didn't box themselves in. I'm also disappointed that they didn't do anything with that premise. The whole first season could have been them looking for clues to the Caretaker's species, Janeway's guilt over stranding them, something that feels like things matter.
Finally, hatred for the Star Wars prequels still burns hot, even after 15 years. So, I'm not surprised that people who were disappointed in VOY during its initial run, are probably still going to be disappointed, if not more so, as the ability to go back and revisit episodes is more available than ever before. So, there is kind of a self-perpetuation of disappointment (and, no doubt, some hatred) as people discover the series and enjoy it, or don't care for it, or don't like. Often times, though, the people don't like something are more vocal about their negative experience. So, I don't believe for a moment that the entire viewing audience, or even a majority of them, hate or dislike VOY. I just think that VOY was poorly done, and left an impression on people, as negative events will do.
They thought part one was intriguing, and were looking forward to Part Two being about the Borg becoming invincible again and taking out the 8472. Once that came along and they saw that the Borg really WEREN'T invincible anymore they stopped liking the storyline.
Like I said, that's only enough plot for one or two seasons at most. If they were given more time, they'd have been able to think of something more for the show to do.
I think the show came at the wrong time, was too rushed, had an incomplete premise and they hired some bad actors. They also made the Primary cast too big. A smaller central cast would've allowed for better usage of Secondaries and made it easier to write episodes.
Again, your theory about Scorpion is an interesting one, but nothing that is verifiable. The overall attitude that I can find is one of liking it, and even the producers found it to be an enjoyable episode.
I understand that the "Lost Ship" plot is only enough for a couple of seasons. That point has been made with a lot of clarity, and I understand it. However, that does not mean that I must accept VOY as it occurred because the production staff chose a limited plot line. VOY does not get special consideration because of poor choices.
I really don't believe that more time was the answer to VOY's problems. It seems clear that they had established their course, or what was felt like a safe bet and stayed with it. Unfortunately, it was TNG style storytelling, but without the characters that grounded that series.
You may be right about the casting, and a smaller cast may have made a difference, though TNG and DS9 made do quite well with a larger cast, to the point that Rom got married.
Sorry, I can be pretty generous, and there are aspects of VOY that I enjoy, but there was more bad, than good, in my opinion. It just lacked a depth and consistency to be interesting, in my opinion.
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