Why Voyager was a Disappointment
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No they wouldn't, take an example from TNG O'Brien he appeared in what some 55 episodes from S1-S6 (the first few episodes). No one questioned why he wasn't in every episode. And that's the point TOS/TNG/DSN could explain away not having many regular recurring crew members, transfers in and out. VOY had no such luxury they were stuck with the ~150 that they had. Instead of reusing a previously established character in another episode they would simple create a new one. Take the above example Lyndsay Ballard who seemingly had an identical backstroy to Jetal from an earlier episode, now how would it have harmed the episode "Ashes to Ashes" to bring back her?
Why they hook Kes up with anyone, at all. Occampans can't go through multiple relationships til they find the right one, there's no time for it. When they figure themselves out, and have a clue as to how Life works, they're dead. I'm not saying that Kes should've been asexual, but if arranged marriages ever made sense for any species, it did for Occampa. It's impossible that - during the "Creative Phase" - that someone did not bring up the unworkable awkwardness of the Kes/Neelix situation. Had meeting this pair occurred much later in the series, at least fans could blame it on "Creative Bankruptsy." But having it right out of the gate, I don't know what to make of it. It's definitely Beauty & the Beast-inspired, but after the makeup-job on both of them, any other similarities bid eachother "adieu." It makes one wonder what other, entirely different ideas from this got tossed out, in favour of this ... this approach that VOYAGER took.
Because Kes was a rebel. She ran off with an older, hairier man with hot space rod instead of staying underground, breeding and dying.
Logical. Flawlessly ... logical.
DS9 and Farscape did the connections by having the main characters either be from the new area of space or be part of the alien species that were central to the show. VOY didn't have that luxury and even when they did add alien crewmembers who were natives the audience just complained it made no sense for those Aliens to join the crew.
And the audience were PO'ed with the Borg in VOY as well.
You just can't win.
The Enterprise was a much larger ship with a much larger crew. They could explain not seeing every recurring character every episode by having them be on another part of the ship and no one would have a problem understanding you can't show off hundreds of people every episode.
A tiny crew, like VOY, wouldn't get that kind of understanding.
Exactly, they'd be stuck having to deal with recurring Secondaries even when they didn't want to write about them or feature them. Unless they were just going to kill them off in their intro so not to have to deal with them beyond that point.
And who creates these secondary characters? In the case of many, staff writers so it comes down to their inital creation being correct. But I doubt when they cast Colm Meany as the Battle Bridge Helmsman in "Encounter at Farpoint" they were even thinking he would go onto be a recurring character in TNG let alone a principal in another spin-off.
In the case of VOY they knew ahead of time they would be stuck with ~150 characters to play with, surely as part of creating the show they should have been thinking about the possibility of recurring characters.
In the case of VOY they knew ahead of time they would be stuck with ~150 characters to play with, surely as part of creating the show they should have been thinking about the possibility of recurring characters.
Recurring characters cost more then one shot characters.
The Naomi and Icheb budget for the last couple seasons could have been divvied up between a few more people.
I don't like how Bones works currently.
She has 5 interns or so, and it's seemingly random which one will be helping out solve the murder in any given week.
The Naomi and Icheb budget for the last couple seasons could have been divvied up between a few more people.
I don't like how Bones works currently.
She has 5 interns or so, and it's seemingly random which one will be helping out solve the murder in any given week.
What I find great about Voyager is tht it is the only Star Trek show that really gives you a feeling for the size of the universe.
I found the T & A easy on the eyes but aweful for the character Seven of nine who (imho) wouldn't have intrest in showing so much of herself. There is no "efficiency" when you have to sort 50 eyeballs out of your gear, even before breakfast.
I found the T & A easy on the eyes but aweful for the character Seven of nine who (imho) wouldn't have intrest in showing so much of herself. There is no "efficiency" when you have to sort 50 eyeballs out of your gear, even before breakfast.
That doesn't mean it had good continuity, it means it successfully had bad continuity.
Budweiser is trying to make mediocre beer, and it succeeds. That doesn't mean it makes good beer.
It wasn't a good thing in TOS either, just TOS has more positive aspects to make up for it. And TNG didn't have perfect continuity but it had a ton of recurring characters who made an impression. O'Brien, Ro, Guinan, Ogawa. Dr Selar only appeared once but was referenced on several occasions.
Dr Selar was in Dr Crusher's staff the entire series and we only saw her once. They wouldn't have to include them in every episode. Just, in an episode that heavily involves engineering they could bring in characters established to be engineers. Couldn't get an actor that episode? That's fine, ignore them for that episode or reference them off screen.
You could also say, they weren't constrained by the existing Trekverse. They could have written any story they wanted without having to worry about whether it contradicts anything or steps on previous continuity's toes.
Not at all. They didn't explain that Keiko gave birth in Ten Forward during an emergency every time they showed Molly. The only information they'd have to drop is the information directly relevant to the story they're trying to tell at the time.
Not at all. Ensign Ro didn't appear in every episode in season 5. Nobody questioned when she wasn't there. Ballard could be stationed somewhere on deck 6 in a science lab, nobody would miss her when she was missing for an episode any more than they missed Dr Selar.
It had 15 decks and in most episodes we only saw the bridge, the mess hall, engineering, the shuttle bay, the holodeck, random corridors and people's private quarters. Nobody ever questioned why Dr Selar wasn't always hanging around sick bay. They didn't have to explain who she was in Remember Me when Dr Crusher was questioning why she didn't seem to exist anymore.
And they'd need to be able to stick around long enough to flesh out those areas and have some connection to the Delta Quadrant in the first place.
Unfortunately, whenever they did hang out for more than one episode all they got was panning and they had no connection to the Delta Quadrant meaning they was no point in trying to make any since that would just get them more panning.
DS9 had Odo and his connection to the Founders to give us connection, Farscape had the majority of the cast be natives of the areas who already had a connection to the Peacekeepers (or be Peacekeepers).
VOY had no connection to anything, and the audience wouldn't give them the time needed to make a connection that would justify them staying in the same place for years.
Um..huh? Voyager had some VERY contrived connections to home...
1. The Amelia Earhart episode
2. The Friendship One episode
3. The Klingon Generation Ship episode
So if the writers could come up with stuff like this, why couldn't they come up with something that was actually believable?
There is NO reason that the Voyager writers couldn't come up with arcs that related to home in some way. Or any kind of arcs, for that matter. They just didn't want to or else were told not to. Doesn't matter. The lack of arcs hurt the show a lot.
Whaaaat??? x2
Maybe, MAYBE I could see S1 of DS9 being the same quality as Voyager. But after that? No way. The Dominion War arc blows even the best Voy episodes out of the water. DS9 had all the character development that Voyager lacked.
And I've already addressed that point two pages ago. Next time, please read all the posts in a thread before you choose to take my comments out of context.
The passive aggressive smiley at the end made your comment particularly convincing.
Once someone came into the Tuvix thread and said something and they had clearly not read post 1026. We eviscerated them and offered the sashimi byproducts to the Forum gods.
Still waiting for some kinda reward.
Still waiting for some kinda reward.
Reward spelt backwards is drawer.
Drawers contain panties.
Though gods seem curiously unconnected from this fact
Though gods seem curiously unconnected from this fact
God is a nudist.
Only pre-Apple.
It's some kind of copyright deal.
It's some kind of copyright deal.
Well, count me as one annoyed at the Borg too. Basically dis-empowered shadows of their former selves, even from Best of Both Worlds and First Contact. It's sad, not that they could be be defeated, but that they could be defeated time and time again in sometimes ridiculous ways. Kind of stripped of their mystique after a while.
VOY could form connections through past exploits, and accomplishments, and things that mattered, and not petty arguments.
Regardless, my point is that VOY didn't have to be this way. It didn't have to be as disappointing as it was, and no matter how angry the audience was, they still had no control over what was produced. You don't blame the customer for a faulty product.
Why do you think that God ate apples?
And if the apples tried to give him shame, do you really think that apples would have the grunt to zap the biochemistry of god and reverse the belief system of someone already al powerful?
God was already aware that genitals are hilarious, which is why he knew Adam and Even couldn't handle fruit from the tree of knowledge. Remember the first time you went drinking and a friend who knew how to drink successfully was giving you advice on does and don'ts?
We were made in his image, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he has a physical presence which means that he can't wear clothes even if he was shamed by his nudity, which he probably isn't.
And if the apples tried to give him shame, do you really think that apples would have the grunt to zap the biochemistry of god and reverse the belief system of someone already al powerful?
God was already aware that genitals are hilarious, which is why he knew Adam and Even couldn't handle fruit from the tree of knowledge. Remember the first time you went drinking and a friend who knew how to drink successfully was giving you advice on does and don'ts?
We were made in his image, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he has a physical presence which means that he can't wear clothes even if he was shamed by his nudity, which he probably isn't.
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