No that was the Enterprise post Nero.
Why Voyager was a Disappointment
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He throws stones while living in a Glass House.
He can be held accountable for not being able to rectify those failings he wouldn't shut about when he had the chance with his own show.
VOY Haters keep saying that's how VOY should've been. With the resource problems always being there and the crew constantly at war with itself and with nothing being resolved even by the end with the crew hating itself even worse.
You know, instead of them acting like adults and trying to work things out so they survive.
Flatly ignoring the conflict is not adult either. And that's what I see in VOY more often than not is any potential conflict or disagreement is either resolved immediately or ignored. That might be satisfying to some, but I find it rather bland.
I don't hear people saying that conflict should last forever, nor is this my argument. I am saying, and I have read, that the conflict should have mattered. But it rarely did, or would come up once and be forgotten. I don't buy that's how a ship stranded would be, and it strains my level of disbelief past the breaking point.
As for Moore, he works in Hollywood. Hollywood is a glass house. Just because nuBSG didn't work out the way he wanted it to, does not mean I dismiss his opinion out of hand. Also, he at least attempted a lost ship plot, which is something VOY never really did, except on occasion. The whole story was not handled well at all, and, as a result, is very disappointing.
You're right, but Moore just took the other extreme and stretched out the conflict too much.
That's why I'm saying they should've just moved onto another plot by S2 or S3 (at most). It'd give other reasons for conflict or at least have something external to drive the characters.
To me, it means I don't have to take his words as irrefutable.
The big problem being that there never was a "whole" story to begin with. No real plot.
Besides, NuBSG had cheats in it that would've been condemned in VOY.
There is a difference between respecting someone's opinion and believing them to be irrefutable. I don't think Moore is perfect, by any stretch, as nuBSG and Generations indicates. But, that doesn't mean his words have no value.
NuBSG had cheats, and so did VOY-all shows do. That is part of the fantasy that makes up TV land. NuBSG was definitely an exploration of extremes, which is what turned me off to it. VOY, however, was too formulaic, at least in its majority, and lost me that way.
Yes, the big problem with VOY was no grander overall construction of the world. So, it comes has no surprise that stories had little significance or meaning in the overall world, other than Neelix's jealousy. And that's not good storytelling, in my opinion, and it should not be viewed as hatred just because I wasn't entertained.
Again, I'm not saying there is not some hatred among some fan members, but rather that was not, and is not, the prevailing, majority opinion. The opinion I have found is disappointment at the formulaic presentation and lack of consequences, when storytelling in television had moved to more serialized format.
Moore put his money where his mouth is.
You ever worked somewhere that sucked for a boss that sucked and didn't quit?
Moore was getting paid tens of thousands of dollars a year to read, write and spell check within parameters he did not find enjoyable, so he left.
Walked away from a lot of money, with no guarantees.
You ever worked somewhere that sucked for a boss that sucked and didn't quit?
Moore was getting paid tens of thousands of dollars a year to read, write and spell check within parameters he did not find enjoyable, so he left.
Walked away from a lot of money, with no guarantees.
Maybe, but we've seen that his own way didn't work out either.
Again, waiting til DS9 was done (giving them free access to the Entire Alpha Quadrant) and doing what Berman wanted (hiring new writers mainly) would've given them the time to think of a real plot beyond "Gilligan's Island in space".
Kind of hard to serialize when you don't have a plot in the first place.
I think they had good foundations for a plot. Just because there have been versions of the Lost Ship that have not succeed does not mean that it can't be done. I still argue that VOY never did Lost Ship beyond surface level examination.
If nothing else, I think VOY had a lot of potential beyond the "Lost Ship" that gets derided so much. They just never used it to the fullest.
Regardless, it is all educational experiences in creating science fiction. For me, it is fascinating because it gives good fodder for potential ideas, and how they could have been done better.
However, if the show was poorly executed, plot-wise or character-wise, then the audience can't be blamed for that.
Poor quality, regardless of the reason, does not inspire me to keep watching.
NuBSG's problems are different from Voyager's problems. Voyager didn't deliver on promise. It advertised itself as one kind of show then turned into another. NuBSG didn't have those problems, it had different problems, and was still much better than Voyager.
Yeah, nuBSG brought a whole host of new problems with it. At least with nuBSG I felt that the characters changed and had arcs, which I will put down as better than VOY.
Voyager's problem was that what it promised was never sustainable to begin with. I mean heck, the same plot was already done 3-4 times already in TOS and TNG, and TOS even outright stated that getting thrown across the Galaxy was no problem for a Starship.
NuBSG wussed out just as much and used the reset button too. They just had unnecessary padding between the reset button push itself.
The characters didn't really change all that much.
Adama: Started off as a staunch military man alienated from his son. Ended the series as a staunch military man semi-alienated from his son.
Apollo: Started off as a self-righteous prick, became fat for a while, went back to being a self-righteous prick.
Roslin: Was normal, went bat-sh** religious crazy, went normal again, became bat-sh** religious crazy, over and over.
Tigh: Started off as a drunk with a slutty wife. Became a drunk with a dead wife (temporarily) and an eyepatch.
Starbuck: Was a drinker with PTSD issues...ended the series still with drunk and PTSD issues but now had divinity to justify it all.
And so on.
They changed more that most of the VOY crew did. Which, actually was one of the reasons I didn't like nuBSG as much, was the way they changed the characters, especially Apollo.
Regardless of whether or not VOY's premise was sustainable, they still set out a premise and didn't follow through, or own up to it. They just took their fan base for granted and delivered TNG-lite.
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