Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Trekker4747, Jan 15, 2020.
Lost me at YT.
People gotta vent, because, well, the Thing is a horrible failed excuse for a finale, IMHO, and a slap in the face to those of us who faithfully followed the show through thick and thin and character inconsistencies and preemptions and fandom disparagement and weekend airings at 2am and terrible promotion by UPN-- remember that lame-o networklet? it died a well-earned death the year after it killed ENT. This was not a good way to repay our loyalty. I am happy to ensure a place for disaffected fans to commiserate and throw brickbats at this idiotic crapfest to their broken hearts' content.
Steve Shives answered the question what would be his adequate final episode with this video:
Although, I think TATV is , his version proves me that he didn't "watch" and "understand" the ENT. No, happily promoting of everyone -if it makes sense or not- is not main problem of TATV. Not even totally unnecessary death of Trip is the one. Main problem of TATV is not respecting crew (incl. writers, set workers, stars..), audience and Trek culture.
Well, there are also too many videos about some 5 Minutes Hacks can be life threatening or some popular social media pets are abused from their owners to get more clicks, etc. I can comprehend why some people react allergic to youtube videos. For the case of Mr. Shives, I think he has every right to make his money in every legal way, but for the future I won't be consumer of his products, since they are not meet my quality expectations.
Sorry, but every idiot with a web cam and an opinion doesn't need to start a youtube channel.
I am sure this topic has already been talked to death but having just watched Enterprise for the first time...the wound of this finale is still too fresh for me.
We grieve with you. Many share your pain, I assure you.
Just because channels like WatchMojo and Grunge are wrong about almost everything they talk about that doesn't automatically discount everyone who chooses to express via one of today's main platforms.
Manny Coto did, on the same night, wrap up his run, the run most of the fans said was when the show was good.
I don't think the fans ever gave much credit to Berman and Braga (and so weren't even looking forward to their finale), the fans instead gave credit to the actors and Coto.
He admits the show was much less popular than its predecessors but is very hostile that the writers would, in what would probably be their last episode, want to return to their more popular characters. I think a lot of TNG fans did watch for the first time in 2 or 3 years and even they didn't like the episode but didn't dislike it either.
Yeah Riker playing Chef and Troi playing around on the bridge was to say the least annoying.
Not super-rare for an episode to focus more on an outsider, obviously, yes, super-rare to do so in the finale but (aside from that it feels weird to feel that an episode would have been OK aired as a mid-season episode but awful for airing last), again, there already was the more-series-finale the same night, TAtV was intended to be much more an epilogue to yes all of modern Trek/Berman's run.
The complaint that Riker and Troi looked too much older than they did in "The Pegasus" seemed pretty petty to me, of course they aren't going to look identical to, exactly like they used to, I think the show-makers did a good job in making them look close enough, pretty close to what they did.
It's worth considering that Braga had wanted to kill off Seven of Nine (a character he loved) in the Voyager finale, I can see him and Berman thinking that fans love TWoK where Spock sacrificed himself so fans will love a heroic death in general (well the fans didn't love Generations but we can do better now).
The idea to have a major character death, while not the most original idea, I can understand them wanting to do it, and I feel that Enterprise was very much Trip's series, so his death would really mean the end of the show, making TATV the most final of any series finale. I didn't know that about the plan to kill off Seven. I do remember reading that the original plan for DS9's finale was also to kill off Sisko.
"He's not dead, he's just in purgatory." With no follow-on DS9 stories after the finale, he will be in there, FOREVER. But he's not dead...
I can assure you, when I saw this when it aired in real time, I wanted to throw my remote at the TV. I also wanted to fly out there and punch them in the face for the way they treated Tripp's death. WAS SO DUMB.
I rewatched this series with my wife a few years ago, she was never into Star Trek, but this series hooked her..when we got to the finally, I watched as she had the same rage I had at Tripp's death and the appearance of Riker holodeck concept.
I felt Berman & Braga crapped on us as fans, because the show was done, so who cares?
I had read years ago that the original plan was to kill off Sisko, but Avery Brooks convinced them to make Sisko's ending more ambiguous, to hold out the hope that he would return to Kassidy and their child some time in the future.
In the Ds9 novel Unity Sisko returns in the book.And it was really clever way he returns I don't want to spoil it..It's one of my favorite Star trek ds9 books.I'm also glad that we got The Enterprise book The Good that men do and by Andy Mangels and Micheal A. Martin Trip didn't die in the book and is a better story than the crappy Tatv finale.
This concept can work IF the character has a "good death" -- a noble sacrifice, righting a wrong, closing a chapter in a life-affirming way. When it works, the viewer is sad, but uplifted as well. In Star Trek II, Spock's death was a good death. The last scene of STII eloquently acknowledged that. "He's not dead, as long as we remember him." "I feel young."
Now look at TATV. Trip dies in the stupidest way imaginable, considering he's a resourceful engineer, a senior officer who often captained the ship, who regularly got the ship out of crises, and MacGyvered his way out of an impossible situation in just the previous episode, which was fresh in our minds. He blew himself up, for crying out loud-- to stop generic, really kinda dopey aliens. The writers tried to make Trip's death "mean" something, but it was totally undermined by the contrived circumstances (where was Reed and Security?) and Trip's totally out-of-character "Well dang it all, Ah guess mah brain done turned to mud, so Ah'd better blow mahself up real good" solution. I suppose you'd expect such a low-level game plan from a yokel who prepared himself to serve as Chief Engineer on a Warp 5 starship by working on boat engines. *insert emoji of my eyes rolling right out of my head* And how did the crew react afterward? Like Kirk and McCoy in STII? Nope, it was all about those crappy seats at the memorial.
Needless to say, I did not feel uplifted by Trip's passing. Or even sad. More like and then , which is where I remain to this day. Not just because I was a loyal fan, but because the Beebs earned more money in one season than most of us will see in a lifetime, and THEY COULDN'T BOTHER.
This was lazy writing, pure and simple. The Beebs did good work in the past, but they did no favors to their reputations by phoning in this episode-- or rather, pulling a dusty old script off the shelf and thinking it would be a slam-bang finale for TV StarTrek and TNG, by using the ENT cast as holodeck cardboard cutout props. They couldn't even take a week-- even a day!-- to do a quick polish that, oh I dunno, promoted some officers? Referenced the Romulan War? Put Trip & T'Pol together rather than mention a breakup that made no sense? (Consider the sweet sorrow of a "good" Trip death if he and T'Pol had been a couple. This is not rocket science, folks.) Acknowledged events to bring the obsolete script up to speed? If not to the Enterprise storyline, which they clearly didn't give a crap about, but jeez, just updating their precious TNG characters? C'mon. Not a lot of respect for the craft, much less the ENT fans, on display here.
Even the Terminator's "death" in T2 had way more emotional impact for me. It was a cyborg with a computer brain, but it sacrificed itself to save the human race it was originally programmed to destroy. I could probably name 50 more good deaths, but it's past 3am here, lol.
For clarity's sake, I'm not saying I agreed with how Trip was killed off in TATV, but just that his death really gave the series a finality because I felt the series over time became mostly about his journey, with him having the most well-written character arc and some of the biggest character moments, with T'Pol coming in second. So, taking out the heart-and-soul character of the series does make sense if you are ending the show and letting the audience know that this is truly' the end' ending.
Don't disagree with your feelings about Trip's death in TATV. I also felt nothing when I saw it outside of it was a waste. I wish they had tied his sacrifice to a larger story, like the Earth-Romulan War, as you mentioned. That would've given his death more importance in a bigger sense, while also giving the audience a taste of how Enterprise would've depicted that war. That's the kind of 'valentine' I would've liked.
I am glad that the novels undone TATV, though I got to say, outside of "The Good Men Do" and maybe "Kobayashi Maru" it felt like they stretched credulity to keep Trip in the story. It might have been best to just let the character go away after that.
I do have to wonder if Berman and Braga, bitter about being cancalled, were also feeling resentful of Trip for becoming the most popular character and also that the Trip/T'Pol romance got too much attention and popularity. Although I think I read on this forum that Coto also would not have brought Trip and T'Pol together again if the series had continued.
Not to forget, he was the one who intended to be Archer's first officer, if T'Pol didn't stay with them. He was "the" second best personal that we had for position of captain of first Warp 5 ship..How can BnB, I mean how..ahhh forget it..
I totally understand what you mean with TATV and novel-Trip, but I think it is not Trip's fault. The writers didn't understand, love and respect Trip. Well, not only Trip but all the ENT crew that we knew and love. Artists have of course their freedom of interpretation, I don't mean it. Nevertheless, they should develop the characters not destroy them in a way which TATV did it before. As I read them (twice) I was so " No, it is not T'Pol's reaction, no Trip is not selfish, disgusting and stupid, no Archer is not ten years old brat, no Malcolm is not incapable and asocial, no Hoshi is not immature...No, no and no". Forget them, read fanfics, not all of them categorized as high literature- what I shouldn't say for the novels either- but at least the authors love ENT.
I never heard this..
To this day I will not watch that episode again. I saw it, it was the only time an episode of Star Trek, or any show for that matter, actually made me angry.
When I introduced my wife to ENT I told her the finale was Demons/Terra Prime. She noticed another episode after it on the Netflix menu so... I gave her a summary, scathing at that, told her the feelings of the ENT actors about the episode and, since she already hates Troi, that was that.
I think I've said before on these boards that that "finale" is the only time I've ever understood fans with their personal "head canon". To me, it doesn't exist.
Rather have seen Shatner in the role.
I wonder about Trip being first officer originally. They should of had a doctor scheduled for the ship, but a no show because of Phlox. So maybe there was a unseen first officer who went elsewhere owing to T'pol.[/QUOTE]
The boat motor thing was a put down by Hoshi, not something from Trip himself, as I remember
Separate names with a comma.